Reptile & Amphibian Forums

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Dave

The Pinstripe is a dominant gene. Jon

That there was only 1 clutch several years ago that was 5 eggs and all 5 hatchlings were Pinstripes. Brian also stated that he was aiming to produce several clutches this year to prove whether or not there is a Super or not. I know my figers are crossed!

Take care...
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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
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I think they are very similar to spiders and if there hasn't been a super made in 5 years. Guess what? Don't hold your breath. I hope there is one for the morphs sake but I would bet there isn't. King Pins rock and they are going to make great crosses that are popping out at you just like the spider in most cases..

Joe at MKR
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Pins and Spiders are not the same. The only thing "similar" is the reduced pattern. The color is not even close to the same, Pins have no white on the sides, and Pins haven't been proven not to have a Super. There have been no other breedings from Pin to Pin...no matter how long they've been around. We'll see it this year since Brian should have enough clutches to figure it out. Personally I believe that there is a Super because basically what are the chances that there are more genes that don't have a super. If you look at it, pretty much every dominant morph has proved to produce a super. I think more people compare it to the Spider ONLY because there hasn't been a super produced yet.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

People and especialy BHB have been breeding pinstripes for a long time now. We have had the platty project breeding for 4 years and have lesser to lesser breeding this year finally. Now only 2 out of 27 lesser females are going this year but most should next. We didn't push our females either. I think it would have already been made ifit were able to make a super. Maybe it will show up this year but i think the genetics are alot like the spider when it comes to the super. They both are great cross snakes either way.

Joe at MKR
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Have the spider pinstripe combo (spinner?) been bred yet to prove that the two mutations aren't linked? I agree there isn't a lot of evidence either way but for all we know they might have a lot in common. It’s not particularly likely but spinner X normal might produce 50/50 spider and pinstripe rather than the expected 25% each split including spinner and normals. Such an outcome (the 50/50 spider and pinstripe) would indicate some sort of a link between spider and pinstripe. Of course it could also turn out that the actual genes have no links but they both just happen to be the first two completely dominant ball python morphs.

Brian did the one breeding of Pin x Pin and got 5 Pins. There have been no other breedings. Last year Brian focused on crosses with the Pins and didn't do any other Pin x Pin breedings. I spoke with him and he said if he would have foreseen such the price drop that happened this year he would have focused more on the Super but didn't think it would take such a hit this year. So this year he's focusing on the Super and should have about 5-6 breedings of Pin x Pin.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

We compare Pins to spiders because they have a Similar look. NOT exact But SIMILAR, NO ONE EVER SAID THEY are EXACTLY like Spiders. But They are the closest thing to a Spider that we have. Is that True or False? Yes that are Different, But they do kinda look along the same line. I personally do not believe that the PINS have a super, One reason is it should have been done by now. The second being you cannot get much better than the pattern of a PINSTRIPE. But I guess will all se soon enough. I have seen weirder stuff happen. Thanks David

More Yellow bellies hatching today...Whooo hoooo

The only reason that it has not been done is because its only been tried ONCE. Ya'll can't seem to figure that out...its only been done once....you can't come to a conclusion from one breeding...simple as that.
I don't see any similarities to spiders and pins. The pattern "structure" if you will isn't the same...most spiders have banded reduced patterns...pins have stripes...thats why they're called pinstripes. The pattern is mostly a bunch of lines to make the stripes when spiders mostly have thin bands across them. And the colors aren't even close to one another either.
And a super doesn't always have to deal with pattern. Most supers have been color differences rather than pattern.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

And YES we can come to a conclusion with only one clutch of 5 eggs out of 5 eggs, NO SUPER !!!!. It's called an Educated GUESS... If I remember correct Greg Graziani Bred a Vin Russo Het Lucy to a Mojave(het lucy) and got 5 eggs...and guess what 2 LUCY's...So I would come to the conclusion that we will NOT be seeing any SUPER PINs. I know LUCY's are not the same BUT we are talking about a SUPER form of two totally different types of Co-dom Morphs(Mojave's X Vin Russo Hets) Now what was the out come of that.....LUCY's. Believe me when I say I hope a SUPER PIN is produced but I don't see it coming, I bet that the Spider and PINstripe are along the same TYPE of GENE, Notice I said ALONG THE SAME, that does NOT mean SAME AS. Like I said if Brian's got a few clutches then we will see soon enough, I am sure Brian's will be producing some of the coolest Pinstripe Crosses this season, But I doubt it will be a Super Pinstripe, I hope I am wrong. But the ONLY time I was WRONG is when I was Wrong but I was really Right....LOL.... Thanks David

And I'm sure he'd agree with me that getting two Lucy's out of a 5 egg clutch is extremely lucky. And you are only talking about one breeding that someone happened to luck out on and get 2 supers. How many other breedings per year do you think there are with the same type of situation and it didn't work out? There is NO way that anyone can make even an educated guess on the results of a 5 egg clutch. At this point its merely an opinion...because until there are more breedings no one can even try to give an "educated guess".
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

ONCE.....I just used Greg's clutch as an example. Because the ODDS were stacked against him. It was an 18 month old female Mojave that was bred to a Vin Russo het, She had 5 eggs with 2 blue eyed lucy's....Now come on dude, I also know of people who hatched a clutch that was 5 eggs from a Spider to a pastel and got the following if I am correct... 2 Bumble bees,2 spiders and a pastel...with NO NORMALS. I am just saying ODDS or NOT, That out of a PIN X PIN clutch with 5 eggs a SUPER should have been born....and IT WASN'T. That leads me to believe that WE will GET NO SUPER PINSTRIPE, I could be WRONG but the ODDS say NO SUPER, and I would rather say it is Unlikely than to say WE WILL SEE A SUPER....ONE CLUTCH is ONE CLUTCH, GREG just got one clutch and NO ONE has EVER put that COMBO together...RIGHT...SO should we say that if you Breed the SAME COMBO that Greg did(Mojave(het LUCY) X Vin Russo(Het LUCY)) That WE will NOT see the same results as GREG...Maybe not as good but I think the out come will be the same, Just like when Brian breeds more PIN X PIN clutches we will just see more PINs, I could be wrong and I may have to eat my words but that is my OPINION on the whole PIN X PIN...Now if Brian would have had eggs go bad then maybe we would have a different story, but to my knowledge he did NOT loose any eggs. We can hope for a Super all we want but the proof is in the first clutch, and I highly doubt we will see a SUPER PINSTRIPE. See ya David
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WRONG... The only time I was WRONG is when I thought I was WRONG but I was really RIGHT.....LOL...LOL...LOL

Its simple...you can't base a decision on one clutch. Yes people have the odds work out for them SOMETIMES....but its not common. 5 eggs means nothing in odds. You even see alot of people tank on clutches that have good odds. I've seen alot of clutches just from pastel to normal have all normals. Then again there have been some with all pastels. The only way to prove your statistics is by volume. 5 babies dictates absolutely nothing.
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

the King Pin, Lemon Blast, Spinner. I really think that the Pinstripe is THE pattern mutation to have, and creat new combinations.

The Pin combos seem to have more drastic, and better, results than the Spider.

BTW, this is comeing from someone working with boas and not ball pythons.