Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I read all the posts and when Loki came down with what sounded to be a typical respiratory infection I took him to the vets. She listened to his lungs and stated there were only sounds on expiration (when he would breathe out) only she said that this meant it was most likely upper-respiratory. There was no mucous in his nose or throat that she could see.

The options she gave me were to either treat him with baytril or to have him placed under anesthesia so they could get samples of the secretions in his throat etc. We chose the first because it is a lot less invasive. He was given an injection and 14 days treatment with pills. Tikka also started showing signs and is on the same treatment.

Today is day number 13 and I have not seen a significant change. This morning he was... I do not know how to say it but “coughing,” he was pushing air out through his throat as though he had something stuck. I do not know what to do. Should I have the tests ran on him to see what is going on? Does it take a while for this treatment to take effect? Does anyone have any other ideas for treatment that have gone through this so I can walk in there with some ideas of how to help him get better?

We have bumped up the heat in the cage and let him swim in the bath tub as much as he wants. He enjoys diving in the bath tub and can get out when ever he wants, we are not soaking him. He is also 33” from nose to tip of tail and weighs 9.9 lbs, just in case anyone needs to know to help me out. He also has not decreased in activity level. There are no signs of illness except for the noises when he breaths heavily or when he eats

Thank you so much to everyone who responds. We do not care what it takes to get him better as long as he gets better. Sorry for the length.

You need to address what is causing this problem, as well as attempting to cure it.

Monitors are tuff as nails and with a strong immune system you never have respitory problems.

So you need get a handle on what is causing your monitor to fail. Please understand, once the immune system is compromised, the monitor will fail from one thing or another. What causes respitory infections is normally common gram-negative bacteria, which is prevelent everywhere. Which means, you and your monitor will be exposed to these types of bacteria.

A compromised immune system is normally caused my improper husbandry. Mainly, not the right temps. Reptiles utilize a range of temps, not one body temp like mammals.

The immune system is also compromised by stress. Which is caused by lots of things unnatural to the monitor.

Notice I do not use human names, the reason is, your pet is a monitor first and foremost. It must be allowed to be a monitor, before it can be your pet.

Please understand, this is not of very much help. You should discuss this with your vet. that may or may not be of help.

In the meantime, address your husbandry issues. Good luck.

I agree with FR for sure. I think it was sensible to avoid the anesthetic needed to take the samples at first, but now is the time to call the vet back and schedule it. This will help with the treatment, and getting it on the right antibiotic. Other tests may also show if it's not an infection (while the monitor's out, you might as well take blood and X-rays as well). All in all, unless it's some freak genetic or tumour thing, and is indeed an infection, then trouble shooting your husbandry is #1 priority.

Good luck

Ian

First off I agree with you completely monitors are monitors first. Then they are our pets. This is why I take the care I provide for my monitors to heart. We have the two together in a cage that is 10ft long, 3ft wide, and 4 ft tall with temps normally ranging from 70 degrees to the two basking spots which are 130 degrees. At night the temps do not go below 70.

I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong that is causing the two to get sick. I ask on here because people such as yourself who have had monitors for a long time, some have housed monitors for longer than I have been alive have more knowledge and experience then I or any vet.

As to the husbandry could you critique?
We have a water dish that is changed regularly, it is large enough that they can submerge in it if they wish but they do not. They only drink this water. They regularly go in the bath tub, this is where we separate to feed, and then allow them to swim in the water. The cage temps are as I posted above; since the two have become sick we have raised the temps to 80-140 degrees. They have two adequate hides. Plenty of room to move and regularly are allowed to free roam with complete supervision. The one area that is not correct from what I have learned on here is that we have cedar mulch as the ground. The female digs while the male has never shown an interest. The humidity in the cage ranges from 50-70%.

If you would please give me any advice as to make this cage more suitable for our monitors I will make the changes tomorrow. Also do you know of any other treatments that have been successful for your monitors or have you never had this problem?

Thank you,
Christina

It seems you have offered a decent temperature range. Now for the next step. I am not a caresheet person. The reason is, a caresheet will suggest a range like you mentioned. Once you understand the range then it becomes something else. I call it a usable range. That is, if the temps are such they don't use them, then those temps are as good as not being offered.

Offering a usable range is much more difficult and takes trial and error.

You mention humidity. A range of 50% to 70%. I never measured humidity in cages. I apply humidity based on the behavior of the monitors.

For instance, when I wet down/spray down/
add moisture I always leave dry areas so the monitors have a choice.

Back to you. Once you have done your homework, then it becomes a problem between you and your vet. As I would hope no one will offer medical advice without seeing the patient or the cage. Cheers

FR, Sorry for the interuption. I don't have monitors yet, but have been hangin' in here for a while learnin' some things. I have a question for you about something in crizzis post. She's using cedar for the bedding, yes? I know it's harmful for other reptiles. Is it an issue with monitors or not? Thanks.

Quig

I skimmed over the husbandry, kinda like yada yada yada. After all, I consider a sick monitor a product of its husbandry, even if I am wrong, that is the best way to approach it(for me, I don't mind being wrong) The reality is, without seeing the actual setup, there is really nothing you can say.

As far as I know, Cedar kills reptiles deader then a doorknob. But it does so with much different symtoms. Cedar tends to paralize them. Not cause URI.

So if she is using any cedar, STOP IT NOW. Cheers

Something else to look at besides the cedar.
Your tub. My brother thought it would be a good idea to let my savs swim in the tub when I was out of town.
What he didn't do was make sure the tub was cleaned and rinsed first. Seems the savs didn't like the soap scum left in the tub.

Scott
-----
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

"we have cedar mulch as the ground"

I don't know how FR missed that, but cedar is toxic to reptiles. Get that stuff out of there right away!

Well thank you everyone, the cedar will be gone today. we have used it for 8 months or longer. Experience wins out. As to the tub, I clean it just about every day. Always before they get in, it is scrubbed with a brush and disinfectant and then rinsed very very well. So thank you again to all. I will keep you updated on what is going on incase anyone is interested. To the cage setup, the picture is below. Since then we have made some adjustments including placing the lights inside the cage so that they have more sufficient basking spots.It may be of no intrest to some but to give those who are helping a better idea.

Christina

Raise the cage off the floor slightly, you could slip 2x4's every couple feet underneath the cage. You might be suprised at how cold the floor of the cage is at night, air is a great insulator.
The cage seems tall to me, you may want to build a dam at the front of the cage so that you can use 1-2' of substrate that will allow the animals to burrow and control humidity.
Bath time can be stressful to monitors and is usually unnecessary. Stress kills.

Good Luck

Your cage is designed for you and only you. Its not designed for the Savs at all. Its dimenisons are human and all human. We only look at ground level up.

We do understand there are animals like gophers that live from ground level down, but we don't like that. Or ants, remember those old ant farms, do they still have those, they were from ground level down, with only a tiny bit of sky.

Well Savs live from ground level down, most of their life is in the ground. They spend the vast majority of their lifes IN the ground, yet your cage is 90% or more, AIR.

A typical day for a natural sav would start in their burrow(and end there too) if the night was cool and dropped the monitors body temps to low, the monitor would stick his nose out of the burrow and warm up his head. Then after warm blood has circulated thru its body, it may come out and bask in the open, right in front of the burrow. On 99% of the days, it would not go anywhere. It was wait by its burrow for something to come by, and bang, have dinner. But after days of no food, it would go to places that it was successful before in finding food. But would not leave until it reached full operating temps.

Remember, the first part of the burrow is very warm from the sun, so the monitor does not actually have to come out to warm up, only on cold nights.

What I trying to do is give you a picture of what they are designed to do. Then compared it to your cage.

Your lites are at the top. That is very bad, for many reasons, one its at total waste of electricty. And expensive. I could heat six cages with the lites you heat one.(my cages would work too.)

The lites on the top also FORCE the monitor to climb up to the top while its body temps are too low. Some individuals are to shy to do this, which means some bold individuals will.

The shy ones will eventually fail. This is a case of offering temps, but not in a way the animals "like" "understand behaviorally" use it. Its against their nature.

Also as RSG said, not enough dirt. Think of it this way, your Savs usable life zone is both above and below the surface of the dirt. THe surface of the dirt is the middle of the life zone, not the bottom. Just some thoughts Cheers

The lights have been moved into the cage, we did that shortly after the cage was placed. We could not get the right temps that we needed as I am sure you can imagine. There is about 3" of air under the cage the cage was originally deisgned differently and had another 2ft of space underneath. I am glad that all are giving me great suggestions because very soon we will be buying a house and plan to have a room designed for the two and now I am more aware of what we need to do to make the room suitable.