Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering if someone could direct me to where I can find information on scale counts for thayeri? I've googled it, and couldn't find anything on kings. I did find a site that showed me what most of the scales were called, so at least that is a start. Just can't find out how many thayeri are supposed to have. I want to count this new girl I just got that you guys noticed was not pure.

Thanks!
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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)
0.1.0 Thayeri? Kingsnake (Moka)
0.1.0 Reverse Stripe Cal King (Maraca)

So, after searching for something OTHER than scale counts I found this information for thayeri:

Dorsal: 21 - 25 rows
Ventral: 190 - 211
Sub-caudal: 51 - 65
lnfralabial: 8 - 11
Supralabial: 7
Analplate: Single

Does this sound right to you guys? Wierd how I couldn't find it when I was looking for it, eh?

So if my new "thayeri" fits these numbers, is she pure? Or just closer to pure?
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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)
0.1.0 Thayeri? Kingsnake (Moka)
0.1.0 Reverse Stripe Cal King (Maraca)

Ventral counts really cannot be used for ironclad identification purposes, especially when there are other indicators of hybridization. The ventral count range you've cited (190-211) includes thayeri, mexicana, and greeri (all of which were considered the same species when those figures were published in 1982). While knowing the ventral scale count of your snake (most easily obtained from a shed skin) can be interesting, it is not revealing. The simple truth is that a large number of "mexicana-type" kings available for sale are the product of mixed-species breedings over many generations. And, as has been pointed out below, the best bet for obtaining animals of known parentage is to work with reputable breeders.

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks for the info, thats good to know.

Also, I had others ask what her iris color was. I am wondering what a thayeri's iris is supposed to be. Her eyes look brown to me... here's a pic. What do you think?

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1.1.0 Leopard Geckos (Booger & Gimp)
1.0.0 Veiled Chameleon (Lucutis)
0.0.1 Quince Monitor (Pollux)
1.0.0 Thayeri Kingsnake (Corbin)
0.1.0 Thayeri? Kingsnake (Moka)
0.1.0 Reverse Stripe Cal King (Maraca)

The iris color of all three mexicana kingsnakes (greeri, thayeri, mex-mex) is brown. Alterna were separated as a species from the mexicana complex partially due to the fact that they had a different iris color (silver/grey).You cannot identify a thayeri by brown irises though. Many snakes have brown irises, including pyros. I still think yours has some pyro influence.