Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I find it strange how a few of the folks using these forums are sensitive to and angry about any prejudice against snakes or other reptiles yet exhibit prejudicial hatred for some other animal. I took me just a couple of minutes to come across multiple examples of such hypocrisy here without intentionally looking for it.

Just an observation of how moronic some members of our community can be.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

good point. Ive noticed that also.

ep
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Occupants not paying rent:
1.1. balls
1.1 corns
1 everglades rat
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
2.1 cats

It is the sad truth.

Over the years I've seen how a few people keep the snakes they supposedly have such a loyalty to, and I've come to the conclusion that they must hate snakes too.

and I will use my "prejudice" as an example. I for one do not care for cats. I dont hate cats, but Im not one to snuggle up to one either. I would never own one for a pet, not because I hate them, but because they do not interest me at all. The same goes for alot of animals. Ferrets, some breeds of dogs, arachnids, lizards, turtles, frogs, and even some breeds of snakes!!! However, when it comes to feral cats, and cats that are allowed to roam the neighborhoods and predate on our native wildlife, then I have a problem with them.

I have multiple bird feeders in my yard because I enjoy the different species of wildlife that it attracts. Birds, squirrels, chipmunks, and even the occasional snake. But when I see a cat in my yard, and I live out in the county, and it is stalking the native wildlife in my yard, then by law, I have the right to shoot and kill that animal. Just as I have the right by law to shoot and kill a dog that may be trying to pull down a deer in my yard. These animals are not to be allowed to roam free and predate on native wildlife. Its bad enough that our roadways take a huge toll on native wildlife, but to have millions of stray dogs and cats out killing them is a tragedy. Especicially when most people who own these animals think that there is no big deal with "just one cat". These all add up and people should be held responsible for their animals actions.

If a person is out poaching, they get hemmed up pretty harshly, but if someones cat is out killing endangered song-birds, nothing is said or done.

Its not hate, but intolerance for preadation. If someone owns a cat or dog, then he or she should be a responsible owner and keep the animal under control.

I grew up on a farm and people used to drop unwanted dogs off at our place all the time. These dogs would usually end up chasing cattle, horses, and other livestock. And I have shot many such dogs. So I do not tolerate any predation, whether it be on native wildlife or livestock and caused by cats or dogs.

Many people feel as I do on here, its not outright hatred, but intolerance.

So you can call me moronic or hypocritical if you will, but my position still stands, and will continue to do so.
Brian

>>I find it strange how a few of the folks using these forums are sensitive to and angry about any prejudice against snakes or other reptiles yet exhibit prejudicial hatred for some other animal. I took me just a couple of minutes to come across multiple examples of such hypocrisy here without intentionally looking for it.
>>
>>Just an observation of how moronic some members of our community can be.
>>-----
>>Randy Hallman
>>Firehouse Herps
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Could'nt of said it better myself!

p.s. I still cant stand a cat.

I don't find the sentiments of cat haters wanting cats killed any different than snake haters wanting snakes killed.

I hate feral animals.
- If I saw a Burmese Python in the everglades, I would run it over with my car. They don't belong. The fact that they are snakes doesn't change anything. If I could do it without damaging my vehicle, feral pigs and ungulates would suffer the same demise.
- I think Brian or any landowner should be able to kill (humanely) any feral animals on their property, whether they are preying on native species or not. They shouldn't need a permit or license to do so, unless their method presents possible dangers to other species (guns, traps, poisons, etc).
- Nothing pisses me off more than hearing people talk about protecting feral populations of animals. I think they should use the fabled feral "mustangs" of the American West for military target practice until we have eliminated them. Same goes for the Wild Ponies of the Chincoteague off the coast of Virginia. Grind them up and feed them to zoo animals.
- It ought to a felony to deliberately release any feral animal, whether you have spayed it or not. If you catch them, euthanize them. It is cheaper than spaying anyway.

OK, off my soapbox for now.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Unless your'e an excellent marksman I think it would be more humane to cut the cats head off. Say you hit it him the back end and it runs into the woods. It may lie in pain for hours before it bleeds to death.
Have you ever thought about catching the animal and taking them to a feral cat rescue or anything. There are lots of places that have feral cat spaying and neutering to try and at least keep them from reproducing. I realize it would be more work on your part, but the cat shouldnt be punished for it. At the worst have it humanely put down.

ep
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Occupants not paying rent:
1.1. balls
1.1 corns
1 everglades rat
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
2.1 cats

Well.... I have been hunting for the better part of my life, am a retired soldier from a combat MOS, am an avid shooting enthusiast, and only use a .22 caliber rifle with a scope when needed. Headshots are the only way to go. Like we say in the Army, "One shot, One kill!!"

Why should I waste my time and gas money to take some animal that is out predating native wildlife, to the local humane shelter. Especially when these shelters are already overcrowded and the animals that are not adopted are euthanized anyways??

Sure the animal shelters spay and neuter those animals that are adopted, but what good does that do if the next owner just lets that animal run wild at their new home??? Still out there killing native wildlife, just not in my neck of the woods!!! So that problem animal is still wreaking havoc on the native stuff!!

Stiffer penalties on owners is the only way this thing is going to be put to bed. And even then, there would still be feral cats and dogs!!! So population control is the the best method. We already do that to control deer populations. When the population gets too high, we increase the amount of deer that can be harvested.

Im sorry I just cant see eye to eye with you on this subject. It is something I feel too strongly about. I have seen what stray dogs and cats can do to other animals and people!

I have had to shoot a couple of dogs while deer hunting. 4 or 5 of them running around in a pack terrorizing the locals. They happened to try and chase the wrong person that day and I killed 2 of them. There is no room for any type of stray domesticated animal in the native population.

Look at the wild hogs down south. They were once domesticated pigs and some that got loose turned feral. Now in some of those states, there is an open season on them because of the damage they do to the local habitat and animals. Is there a difference between them and a wild dog or cat?? I dont think so, and should be handled in the same way.

Another prime example is the retics in the everglades. Im a big snake fan, yes, but have no problem with eradicating the burms from the everglades. This is another feral animal. It is not native and is killing off the native species in FL.

So see, it is not hatred, I do not believe these animals should be on the loose to exact the toll they do on the native wildlife and habitats.

Brian

>>Unless your'e an excellent marksman I think it would be more humane to cut the cats head off. Say you hit it him the back end and it runs into the woods. It may lie in pain for hours before it bleeds to death.
>>Have you ever thought about catching the animal and taking them to a feral cat rescue or anything. There are lots of places that have feral cat spaying and neutering to try and at least keep them from reproducing. I realize it would be more work on your part, but the cat shouldnt be punished for it. At the worst have it humanely put down.
>>
>>ep
>>-----
>>Occupants not paying rent:
>>1.1. balls
>>1.1 corns
>>1 everglades rat
>>1 w. hognose
>>1 bearded dragon
>>2.1 cats

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Why would you assume I was referring to you? I never mentioned anyone by name or by any particular posting or thread. You may want to review some of your previous posts however, as well as your local laws.

Thank you for your input. Your contribution was very helpful.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

Randy
I didnt say you were targeting me. But I did fit into your generalization, as I am very vocal about keeping feral animals under control. My reply was not intended as any kind of repercussion, only good healthy debate.

As far as my local laws, I am well within my legal rights to euthanize an animal that is predating on native wildlife, for animal or pest control. That is right from the books.
Brian

>>Why would you assume I was referring to you? I never mentioned anyone by name or by any particular posting or thread. You may want to review some of your previous posts however, as well as your local laws.
>>
>>Thank you for your input. Your contribution was very helpful.
>>-----
>>Randy Hallman
>>Firehouse Herps
-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Your heading implied I was trying to bait you into a response. That is why I responded the way I did.

I do not know the laws in your specific community but it is usually illegal to shoot domestic type animals like cats and dogs. People in rural areas often have cats and these typically are not house cats. If you want to cite the law it is more often legal to kill reptiles on your property than cats or dogs.

Consider this: If the issue is predation on native wildlife by animals that do not or should not interact with the eco system then it should be illegal for people to use wc amphibians and reptiles as food for captives. This is of course not uncommon.

Since invasive species have a tendency to have a negative impact on native species should it be illegal to keep any species in captivity outside their natural geographic range? Some people believe this and using your argument they could make a valid point.

I have never seen any studies that implicated cats feral or otherwise as being as significant a detriment to native species of wildlife the way introduced species and even collectors have been. As a predator a cat will not take the healthier stock the way collectors will. I am not saying feral animals are not a matter of concern but it does not appear they are that significant for the issues cited. This is also true when it is considered that natural predators have been diminished in many areas from human activity.

So the issue is predation on native wildlife. There are multiple perpetrators of said predation identified. We have singled out a single perpetrator that is not under most situations that significant of a perpetrator. We have labeled our opposition to this one perpetrator as intolerance. We have ignored more common and problematic perpetrators of the discussed predation. This is unreasonable as it is disconnected from the actual issue of predation. Prejudice is defined as unreasonable feelings, opinions or attitudes.

Bottom line: You have cited an important issue but appear very biased and selective in your intolerance to the various causes.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

I have never seen any studies that implicated cats feral or otherwise as being as significant a detriment to native species of wildlife the way introduced species and even collectors have been.

I am actually a cat lover. I have two old cats and they do get out into the back yard, but they don't leave the yard. One of them has killed a few small rodents, a squirrel, and numerous Med. Geckos. (I don't mind the med geckos, as I hate all non-native species. I round up med geckos whenever I need snake food for a picky feeder).

That said, you can't have looked very far to find research into the impacts of feral cat predation. There are hundreds of such studies, with contradictory results. Try searching google scholar and you will find lots of references.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

>>Consider this: If the issue is predation on native wildlife by animals that do not or should not interact with the eco system then it should be illegal for people to use wc amphibians and reptiles as food for captives. This is of course not uncommon.

That depends. I've fed wild caught reptiles and amphibians to a few snakes...but they were all introduced exotics.

>>Since invasive species have a tendency to have a negative impact on native species should it be illegal to keep any species in captivity outside their natural geographic range?

No, but it should be and is illegal to release them. It is also illegal in most places to allow any domestic pets to run loose, but even where it applies this is rarely enforced against cats.

>>I have never seen any studies that implicated cats feral or otherwise as being as significant a detriment to native species

http://www.audubon.org/local/cn/98march/nasr.html
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/npws.nsf/Content/Feral cats
http://www.wildlife.org/policy/index.cfm?tname=policystatements&statement=ps28
http://www.deh.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/
http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=31506

Those are from 1.5 out of the 3000 pages of results I got for "feral cats",predation on yahoo.

>>Bottom line: You have cited an important issue but appear very biased and selective in your intolerance to the various causes.

Sorry, but I don't think he's the one who's biased if you don't think cats (feral or free-ranging pets) are the second greatest threat to small wildlife in this country next to man...

I don't remember posting anything on these forums lately that would lead you to believe I was one of the hypocrits you referred to, but I'd bet if I had posted anything about cats you think of me that way, but I think you're wrong. I don't think introduced exotics should be tolerated in the wild, whether they be dogs, cats, monkeys or snakes. We complain most about cats because they are without a doubt (in my possibly biased mind) the biggest offender in this area and most people don't care or refuse to see it because they're "cute and fuzzy".

Snakes are my thing, and I would be happy to take in a few burmese collected from the Everglades, but I don't expect anyone to go out of their way to bring them to me, and if there aren't enough proper homes for them they should be killed in the most expedient way possible. If it can be done humanely that's great, but if that makes it harder, burn 'em, poison 'em, drop bricks on 'em from a helicopter. Whatever it takes. I'd be happy to go shoot them myself. Ditto for feral cats.

I concur with most everything you said. I did state that feral cats are an issue of concern. I do not believe that overall they are the second greatest threat to native wildlife next to man but I can certainly believe they would be in some locations. Of course feral cats do fall under the definition of invasive species at times. I do not believe this is always the case as it would depend on their numbers and their impact.

I do not remember reading any of your posts except this one. I still believe my original statement that opened this thread is an accurate observation though I did not intend to target any specific individual.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

Randy
Man is the first and foremost danger to any native wildlife. We have destroyed habitat and killed animals to extinction.

But talk to any wildlife biologist or Fish and Game officer and they will tell you that the largest problem with native predation, is feral animals. Whether it be cats, dogs, zebra mussels, retics, hogs, etc. etc. Introduced species have no niche in the native ecology. They mostly have no natural predators to keep them in check and spread disease. Sure out here in the country, I see an occasional coyote, but this is a native animal. And there are not nearly as many coyotes as there are feral cats and dogs, especially around the urban areas of America. There are estimates that number the feral cat population in the U.S, at around 65 to 100 million cats!!! If you dont think these cats are creating problems, then you are gravely mistaken. They not only kill birds, amphibians, reptiles, insects and small mammals, but they outcompete other wildlife as well. Raccoons, oppossums, fox, coyotes, larger snakes and even the bobcat!! So they are having a serious detrimental impact on the native wildlife from the apex predators all the way down to the feeder animals!! It is a large problem that legislature is having a hard time dealing with. You know why?? Because you have all these animal rights acitivists screaming animal cruelty if animal control officers shoot a feral cat! People need to get their priorities straight and put their energy towards something that really matters. Prserving our native wildlife, not a bunch of feral cat and dog populations!!!

"Since invasive species have a tendency to have a negative impact on native species should it be illegal to keep any species in captivity outside their natural geographic range? Some people believe this and using your argument they could make a valid point."

It is a federal law that makes it illegal to release any exotic species. This is in place just because of what is going on now with FL and other places. Here in northern KY and in southern OH, we have what is called the Wall lizard. It is a species from Italy that was brought here decades ago. Some of them got loose and are thriving. They are pushing out the native lizards and skinks and outcompeting them. Another invasive exotic species.

"I have never seen any studies that implicated cats feral or otherwise as being as significant a detriment to native species of wildlife the way introduced species and even collectors have been. As a predator a cat will not take the healthier stock the way collectors will. I am not saying feral animals are not a matter of concern but it does not appear they are that significant for the issues cited. This is also true when it is considered that natural predators have been diminished in many areas from human activity."

With all due respect, you must not have done much research. Why do you think that a couple of states are working on legislation to put cats on open season? Here in KY we have a "Keep your cat indoors" day along with educational programs to help try and educate cat owners on the destruction cats are wreaking on native song birds. Cats have been linked to the decline of native song bird populations across the U.S.

Many states are working on legislation to halt the practice of managing "free ranging cat colonies". This is mostly due to the high numbers of native species in decline in those areas. How can you spay and neuter a feral cat, and then release it back into the community?? A person who does this is actually breaking the law in many cities/counties. Although most law enforcement turns a blind eye, because these organizations are supposedly "helping" control the population. However, most studies show that this just has not been working. We all know how fast cats breed, and they produce sizeable litters. Also, most people who own cats let them roam free, and you have hundreds of people who acquire cats every year. These cats are mostly not spayed or neutered and are allowed to roam free. Look in the classifieds any given day under the free section. There are more cats advertised than any other item. Why?? Because 90% of cats are allowed to free range, breed, and produce more cats. The owners either give them away, or allow these to free range as well, and therein lies the problem. People do not keep their pets under control.

Cats usually kill just for the sport of it. Most cats are fed at home and are allowed to free range. I have caught a couple stalking birds at my feeders. I have chipmunks that sit on my front porch and feed, and my 16 month old son loves to watch them. But then you have a cat come into the yard and chase the birds or squirrels and chipmunks. Sometimes they will climb the trees in an effort to catch them. I also have rabbits, deer and turkey that frequent my yard. Do I want cats killing the rabbits and chasing the turkey chicks when hatched? Nope, thats why I will kill them when I see them in my yard. They do not belong in the native ecology, period. They belong to a person, and that person should be responsible enough to maintain that animal under proper control at all times, and not allowing it to free range.

"I do not know the laws in your specific community but it is usually illegal to shoot domestic type animals like cats and dogs. People in rural areas often have cats and these typically are not house cats. If you want to cite the law it is more often legal to kill reptiles on your property than cats or dogs."

If an animal is predating on your property, you have the right to destroy that animal in the state of KY. I have called the local sherrifs office and asked specifically about feral cats and dogs. I was told that if they are on your property and doing damage to private property, posing a threat to pets or family members, or predating native wildlife, then they can be destroyed. This does not mean torture, but a quick death by gunshot is legal.

I would like my children and my childrens children to be able to enjoy our native wildlife as much as I have throughout my life. And if it means killing feral and exotic introduced species to make this possible, then I will do all I can to ensure this.
Brian

>>Your heading implied I was trying to bait you into a response. That is why I responded the way I did.
>>
>>I do not know the laws in your specific community but it is usually illegal to shoot domestic type animals like cats and dogs. People in rural areas often have cats and these typically are not house cats. If you want to cite the law it is more often legal to kill reptiles on your property than cats or dogs.
>>
>>Consider this: If the issue is predation on native wildlife by animals that do not or should not interact with the eco system then it should be illegal for people to use wc amphibians and reptiles as food for captives. This is of course not uncommon.
>>
>>Since invasive species have a tendency to have a negative impact on native species should it be illegal to keep any species in captivity outside their natural geographic range? Some people believe this and using your argument they could make a valid point.
>>
>>I have never seen any studies that implicated cats feral or otherwise as being as significant a detriment to native species of wildlife the way introduced species and even collectors have been. As a predator a cat will not take the healthier stock the way collectors will. I am not saying feral animals are not a matter of concern but it does not appear they are that significant for the issues cited. This is also true when it is considered that natural predators have been diminished in many areas from human activity.
>>
>>So the issue is predation on native wildlife. There are multiple perpetrators of said predation identified. We have singled out a single perpetrator that is not under most situations that significant of a perpetrator. We have labeled our opposition to this one perpetrator as intolerance. We have ignored more common and problematic perpetrators of the discussed predation. This is unreasonable as it is disconnected from the actual issue of predation. Prejudice is defined as unreasonable feelings, opinions or attitudes.
>>
>>Bottom line: You have cited an important issue but appear very biased and selective in your intolerance to the various causes.
>>-----
>>Randy Hallman
>>Firehouse Herps

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

I have done an adequate amount of research on this. I am not advocating that feral cats are a good thing by any stretch. You have made some excellent points many of which I agree with. As I mentioned to the previous poster I am as convinced as ever that my original observation for starting this thread is accurate. Remember, it was a general statement not targeted to any one individual or situation.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

on this and MY take, knowledge ( what i think is my knowledge ), my local area and abroad, and my later in life feeling of feral cats, to name a few.

Animal control agencies and shelters : by sheer numbers > my local shelters has more cats than dogs and other animals that they can handle ! They say it has been this way for the past few years. My local animal control agency says that they get more cat calls than any other animal calls in a area of 50 square miles of my county. Of country > there is significant proof that cats are exceeding any other animal numbers of population whether wild ( feral ) or not ) domestic as well ? ). Watch the animal planet of animal cops. See the homes or what ever with HUNDREDS of cats compared to dogs. I know personally of several people that had the same scenario of cats in home as the televised program.

Since living out here in Boonie Town USA > when going down the road at night including my little berg of township, other than opossums, cats are the number one animal seen. Even more so in the township at night.

Problems that I have encountered with feral cats : of the past 6 years living here and dealing or trying to deal with feral cats : my starter vegetables plants have had their leaves chewed/eaten off by cats, my reptile room in an out building has had multiple problems by cats getting into the upper roof space and having kittens that has caused damage to my sheet rock, i have had a close fire from adult cats peeing and or chewing on electric wires above my reptile room, I've had kittens drop or got into the walls of my reptile room in between some how and died with the smell lasting for weeks.

Property problems and death toll of my road in front on cats: while I don't really care of the predation of birds and mammals that much of cats, it is the predation of the killing of my on property of snakes that bothers me of these freaking cats. And the bodies of hit cats by vehicles ( yes, I've had no choice as well as the dang cat run out in front of me ) strewn on the road where I live and right in front of my home.

My thoughts of cats whether feral or not : I USE to be a cat lover and even breeder of kinds of cats like Burmese, Siamese, tonkanese, Balinese to name a few. But with all of the above, I am becoming a hater of cats. I have tried the live trap method. Never worked very good. I have tried contact with absolutely no way and or results including the kittens of as these cats are extremely elusive. I have not even considered poisoning since repercussions of other wildlife eating it. I will soon employ extermination by firearm of any seen as I CAN legally do that where I live with permission from my county law enforcement. Except for the possibility of a animal humane chapter ( OH YES, people have tried to be convicted of this ) in which there IS no local chapter, I feel I have no recourse in this matter ! Any thoughts or arguments or debates on my situation or plans ?
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

"Any thoughts or arguments or debates on my situation or plans?"

All the above that you have posted is exactly how a large number of people feel. I do not advocate the wanton killing of animals, by no means. I am a hunter, and abide by the laws set forth by the state. I do hunt animals, and our state runs a great conservation dept.

But when it comes to feral animals, I strongly feel there is no room for them in our native wildlife populations. Our states spend millions every year for wildlife conservation and animal control. For everything from bats to elk, and feral animal populations. That is what it is all about, native wildlife conservation. And feral animals do not fit into this niche.

That is why on my property, it is open season on any and all feral animals. Now if a dog or a cat has a collar on, I will not shoot it, unless I have to. I have captured a cat before that was wearing a collar and turned it over to the local pound. But if no one claims these animals, our pound is so overcrowded, that if not claimed in 10 days, the animals are euthanized.

So every feral animal that I erradicate, there is money I have helped the county save, and helping conserve our native wildlife at the same time.
Brian

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath"(KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

I love posts like this, especially when its something I feel strongly about...I believe that any pet that is not native to where you are should be required to have I.D. and if not it should be killed in some way...I have known too many people that have had problems with their pet cats, whether it be them attacking a child or having them have kittens and being too poor to spay/neuter them....in all honesty something needs to be done about this, and quickly or the 65-100 million feral cats(as said in a previous post) are just going to keep breeding and that number is just going to get worse and worse
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A.J.
1.0.0- Amel Motley Corn- Valentine (R.I.P 5/20/05)
0.1.0- Snow Corn- Artica
1.0.0- Normal Corn- Ember
1.0.0- Ball Python- G.T.

This topic always brings up a heated discussion...

First thing:
Yes, I fully believe ferals ARE the number two cause of native wildlife population reductions. Although technically they are still human stupidity at work.

And I fully believe Cats are among the highest if not THE highest feral.

And I agree that the populations MUST be reduced.
Humans caused quite a bit of damage up here in New England. Deer no longer have a natural predator and NEED hunters to keep populations down. There was one year back in the 20's (I think) where they outlawed hunting and there was literally HERDS of HUNDREDS of deer all over the place. And those are native species we need to kill.
ANY feral animal should DEFINITELY be removed if at all possible.

Second thing:
There is definitely a "Fuzzy and cuddly" mentality at work here.

I admit...I like cats. I do not own any. And I feel VERY strongly about people letting them out. I yell at my own parents all the time because they let on of their cats out. Problem is, the stupid thing usually hunts for fun. I can ALMOST understand its need to EAT, but it just kills things and leaves the bodies lying around. Drives me bonkers.

But cats have been around for thousands of years. They are semi-domesticated, but have been considered a PET for centuries. Snakes and other reptiles, unfortunately, have not.
Cats commonly show affection. Reptiles do not (debatable to some).

Now I can also say that I get mad as hell at people killing other people's PETS. Many of you have already said they don't shoot the ones with collars...that I can respect.

Yes they should not be allowed to roam in the first place, but its a loved pet period.
I know I would be mad as hell if someone killed one of my escaped snakes or my tortoise. Hell, I cried when I lost my first tort. Its a pet, a friend. It becomes part of your life...some people may laugh, but I consider ALL my animals as my children.

*I think THIS is the part that most of society gets upset over. They see someone shooting a cat and they immediately think it was a pet.*

The key here is education. So few people understand the problems with pet animals allowed to run free.

Thirdly:
One more problem to consider. Killing the animals may just make us look like the bad guys.
"Oh, he's killing PETS! He keeps REPTILES!"

Its not gonna help our cause. Shooting the "warm and cuddlies" might just make us look "slimy and cold-blooded"...
Know what I mean?

np.
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0.2 chickens (Condor & Valentine)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

As a teacher, its nice to have some recognition now and then

And I fully believe more education would solve many of our problems in not just evironmental and pet issues, but pretty much across the board in every aspect of our society.

So while I can fully understand people shooting [FERAL] cats (especially on their own property which they are trying to protect), I think it might be a little premature on our part and we need to be VERY careful in treading that path.

Lets face it, us Herptile nuts (and the animals we keep) have a bad reputation already, and doing this will just give a WORSE reputation...all because people are poorly educated on both accounts.

I'm not saying NOT to do it. I'm saying just think about the repercussions. I also feel anger can be channeled more productively through public education rather than a gun, but thats just me...I can see the good points on BOTH sides.

n/p
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Diego & Tiffany's Zoo
SNAKES
4.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
0.0.2 Rosy Boas (Mid Baja & Baja)
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.0.0 Western Hognose
0.1.0 Solomon Island Boa
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.0.1 Desert Phase Kingsnake
LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
0.0.3 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx