Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some of you might of noticed I haven't posted much in the last few months, and here is why;

On December 10 I lost my younger sister, But got two great kids. I don't have any of my own kids so having hers is the best thing ever. Don't get me wrong, I miss her, and the kids father is liveing with us but he.............

Anyway, I had to go back to work to help with them. I see now that my pay checks are not going to enough to raise them the way she wanted, so I need to find another way to get some income to offset my pay checks.

I have always thought of my snakes/breeding as a hobbie, not once thinking of money when it came to them, but just the fun. I have my het albino and wanted to breed him so in a few years I could have an albino(I just can't pay that much for a snake) and that was going to be that.

Now I see I need to make some income from them, I know all this time I have said snakes should not be looked at as income, and now here I am doing just that. Trust me, I fell like a hypocrite now!!!!

I know I will have albinos, I'm thinking about getting a het pied, and a het axanthic, so down the line I can get a snow pied. I know starting with hets it's a long,long road. But I'm poor and it's the only way I can do it.

What other morphs would you get if you were me?

I'm going to stay away from spiders till someone finds out what causes the wobble head thing, and gets rid of it, and I don't like too much else out there.

I am working with more then balls, so maybe that would help, but with all talk of bans on burms and stuff like that I want a back up plan so to say.

Any ideas?
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Please...
Keep an OPEN MIND, You'll be AMAZED...

this is my reason to change my mind on the income side of breeding,

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Please...
Keep an OPEN MIND, You'll be AMAZED...

here he is with his favorite snake, and trust me everyday he wants her out, most the time I will, but when I say no.....well I'm sure some of you know how a almost four year old can be.

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Please...
Keep an OPEN MIND, You'll be AMAZED...

best advise I can give you....

get a better job.....and make more money ....work a little overtime.(I hate overtime ).....

.......snakes will eat up almost as much cash as they create....

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you actually want to make a little extra cash.....

get one good ball rack.....that's 10 snakes with heat tape...

get a couple baby racks.....(make them ).....

get like 8 good females and get them big.....

get a pastel male and like a ghost to start.......(that's $450 and less and $under 1000$)......

breed them and sell het ghosts and pastels and the normals....

get only snakes that eat frozen thawed mice and rats..period....get rid of problem snakes......

you can make some money and then if you can or want to get better male morphs as they drop in price....

actually you can get the albino male relaly soon for the same price as the ghost...

for the real cash like I said....get a better job........wish I would have 20 years ago.......LOL

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.snakes eat cash......$$$$$
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JYReptiles

Scales-N-Tails Reptiles ltd........Pa

First off, I know this is a reptile site, and everyone loves snakes, but I cant help but shake my head when I see a little boy with a snake that could kill him in seconds. I am sure that boy has no clue as to the dange he could be in with that animal. The first way to raise a kid sucessfully is to not get them killed. That out of the way, I have spent thousands (too many) on BPs... and with every thousand I spend it takes me that much more away from my kid. I spend hours cleaning cages, feeding, record keeping... etc. And how much money does that all make?? Not enough to make up for all the lost time that the kids had to be glued to the TV. IMHO if you really want the best for the kids, forget moeny, spend time with them. If you have enough to put clothes on them and food in their mouth, give them the very most important thing... YOUR TIME.

If you must go out and spend on snakes, I say go with something that will be a good long term investment such as pied, lesser, pastel females. The reality of a pied snow is it wont happen by starting with hets any time in the next 15 years (the kids would be in college). A tripple homozygous animal is out of reach for most people at this point in time. Shoot for a pastel pied. They are awsome animals and that will leave room for growth. Pied still needs to be crossed with many things. What would a pied mojave look like? If you are going to make enough money to have it be worth it, you will need to be on the cutting edge of breeding. I am not saying you WONT make money, but what do you expect a good yearly income of these snakes to be? If you expect to make $10k a year off these, you better be ready to put in $10-20k now. Just because breeders make $10k a year, they still have to figure in all costs, plus the cost of staying on top by buying new morphs. A lavendar albino would be a nice addition to a starting collection, that will be very sought after for years to come.

If you want to make money you have to have the money to spend. I'm pretty sure a burm costs way more to take care of than it will make you, please tell me you aren't breeding those? I also wouldn't let a burm be around my kid like that, yes they can be gentle but if they decide for some reason that they think the kid is dinner what can you do? I've had balls for almost 3 years and probably between racks and animals I've spent around 8K or so and that isn't food. Yes I buy babies and raise them up and I have my racks and incubator made for me but this is the first year that we are producing anything and I'm not expecting to make any profit, hopefully this year the rodent costs won't come out of my pocket is all and I can somewhat justify the mojave and spider I want to get In the long run yes you can make money even if you don't have a lot to start with but it takes years that way. If you have enough to go out and buy adult het females or even normals and something like a lesser then go for it and you can make money back but you need that money first.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com

Everything Nita has said is true!

That said,i'm on my second breeding year...with the third looking very promising...i started with buying normal females and two poss het caramel males in 04...fed and bred them...traded a few things...fed some more...traded a few others,and i now am in a position to be looking at a nice year next season.(Albinos?,pastels,super pastel?,caramels?,burgundys?,het-ivories,ivory/other odd thingamajigs?)
As long as you try,it does happen.
Funny thing though,non-herpers that i know are always asking me if i have "made any money yet?"...They don't get it.First you have to build a company,then it can profit...
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Here is an interesting post from a few days ago... imagine if this had been a burm and a small kid....http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1072200,1072200

as some have said, why not try to get a better job, or maybe a raise? If you have a good boss, they might understand what you've been through and be willing to give you a small raise.

I'm only a teenager just getting ready to go to college and plan out my careers (I plan on being a full-time band director at a middle school or high school, and a part-time drum instructor, and part-time professional drummer...the latter two I already do now). Anyways, you seem like you've been doing fine without kids, and it doesn't sound like you planned on having any kids right away, but now you've got kids you have to take care of and support, but you have a job that can't support that. You might have to try to find another job, because you can't start a good breeding project if you're thinking about the money, because you won't make any money for quite some time unless you get very lucky.

It may seem like a good idea to try breeding snakes now, but this is actually the worst time. You should wait until your finances are steady before you invest in more mouths to feed, especially when those mouths aren't going to yield any offspring for a while. You'd be better off to get a part-time job to supplement your full-time job.

Just my thoughts on it. You're going to end up hating the whole thing if you go into it thinking about the financial end. what's the point in that? At that point, you're not doing it for the good of the snakes or the good of the hobby. Try to find a different way to make some spare change for now.

A few thoughts from way out in left field. I recently lost my brother. His surviving children get his Social Security survivors benefits. Did your sister work over the table? She may have benefits for her survivors.

Also, if the father of these kids can work....boot his butt to the curb to get a job.
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2.1 Albino BP
0.4 100% Het Albino
2.1 100% het Caramel Albino BP
1.0 100% Het Clown
1.0 50% het clown
2.12 Normal BP
0.0.1 Western Hognose
alot of cornsnakes
0.1.0 Dumeril Boa
3.6.1 Bearded Dragons
1.0.1 Sulcatta tortoise
2.0 Russian Tortoise
1.0 Cockatiel
0.1 Rottweiler
0.2 Boston Terriers
0.1 White Boxer
0.1 Paint Mare
bunch of geckos
0.1 Teenage daughter
1.0 Husband who puts up with all my critters.

I didnt even think about the SS benifits... my mother just died a few years ago and my little brother gets a check every month until he graduates high school... its more than enough to make up for having a kid.... then you can just enjoy your hobby insted of making it work.

Ok,

First, you can't see the snakes head cause I have a hold of her. I know she wont do anything but why risk it?

as to the over time thing, I already work 80 hrs a week, four 12hr days, and two 16 hr days, every week! I make good enough money, just not enough to give them the life she wanted them to have. private schools and that kind of stuff, stuff I think they would be fine with out, but thats what she wanted them to have so that is what I want to try to give them.

A for SS, we are looking into it, but she was only 25, and only worked for a few years, we have not even been told how much they will get.

Don't get me started on the father, all I will say is we can't push him too much or he will just take the kids, and then they will have no hope.

I don't want to be the next big breeder, or look at my snakes as income or something to make money off of, I've been saying that for years now. I just need a little extra, and thought my hobbie could be a way to get it.

by the way, NO I'm not breeding burms, I have in the past, and to hope to again someday, but right now there are to maney reasons not to.

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Please...
Keep an OPEN MIND, You'll be AMAZED...

Well, I am glad you help hold that snake and I hope you always keep it that way. Its neat for kids to have exposure to things like that, but they sould always be safe and made aware of the dangers. It sounds like you want the best for the kids and thats what they will get money or not. I wish you luck!!

Ben

I don't mean to be pushy but in all honesty could your sister have afforded to give her kids the lifestyle that she had planned for them? If the father doesn't work, I know myself my two boys don't go to private school on my income with a husband that is physically incapable of working outside the home. Sometimes the things we want for our children and doing what is best for them just don't always match.

Sorry if that is too outspoken.

April

80 hours a week? You don't have enough time to start a profitable breeding operation. Even if you could, then you don't have any time at all to spend with the kids. You should be working less hours so you can actually bond with the kids and make them happy. Don't try to make up for that by buying them things (public schools are fine).

If you buy them everything you really think they should have (or your sister thought they should have) they will have a warped view of reality. I see it all of the time because I live next to a few very rich neiborhoods and go to school with kids whose parents had good intentions, but ended up with bratty kids that don't want to work and think that they're always going to have $100,000's of disposable income. It sounds like you're a hard worker, so let that rub off on the kids, that they need to work hard to get somewhere. That things won't always just fall into their laps.

Try raising the kids how you think they should be raised. Things will go a lot better. Wait until you have the extra money and time a breeding project and then do it for fun, not profit.

First off, I want to say I'm sorry about the loss of your sister. You are a good brother taking in her children the way you are. Your sister was lucky to have you and her children are lucky to have an uncle who cares.

I think you have been given some good advice by the people here. Crazydart's advice came from the heart. JY and Nita gave you some very good practical advice, and for a young pup, that ryan has a good head on his shoulders.

Whatever you do, I wish you luck, it's sad enough that those little kids have lost their mother, and for you to take on the whole load, you have a tough road ahead of you. Hopefully people here along with friends and family will give you strength when you need it.
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gail

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SBF

I am very sorry to hear about your loss, but it looks like those kids are going to still have a loving family.

As far as breeding Balls for profit, I think you may have picked a good year to BUY some animals, but as far as breeding them and making money in the future, it is not easy. If I was you, I would not go the Co dom route, too many normal females to feed, but rather buy a Ghost male and some Het females. Ghosts will always be popular. You might want to stick to one or two morphs, and just keep adding nicer lines of say Hypos, so you become one of the "guys to go to for a nice Hypo." I would not go with Albinos right now, but a nice trio of Het Pieds would be nice too. The problem is, if you NEED to make money at breeding snakes, you may soon learn to HATE snakes. For me, I like the whole process, buying, keeping, breeding, hatching, selling, but if I was NEEDING to make money, I do not think I would enjoy it and would probably have given up by now. If you NEED to make money, I would pursue something else. One more thing, just get a pair of Albino Boas, more babies, and they are still worth some good money.