Reptile & Amphibian Forums

where can i get training to handle hots?

what are some hots that are big and thick like a python?

are venomoids aggressive?
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

also where can i find some good care sheets?

btw im not actually planning on buying a venomous snake yet. (unless its a venomoid)
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

you may want to move these questions to the venomoid forums.
Most of us on this forum do not support them.
By the way, I have a friend that almost died from a venomoid cobra bite.

If you are going to do this properly and with responcibilty, find a mentor that can train you. Venomoids do not enter into this equation.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

"If you are going to do this properly and with responsibilty, find a mentor that can train you. Venomoids do not enter into this equation."

Tim: Truer words have never been posted.

~~Greg~~
Florida's Venomous Snakes

can you at least answer my size and caresheet questions?
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Hey Jake-
I don't think you'll find many care sheets specific to venomous. Many share general husbandry requirements with many non-venomous species. The major difference is the obvious one; the "sharp-pointed one". I am not aware that anyone has captured all those special care and safety elements in one source. They are frequently the topic of discussion in this forum however.
As far as any venomous being as big and thick as pythons, the answer is mostly "no". The King Cobra is the longest venomous snake and several of the vipers are thick-bodied, but none match the demensions of an adult Burmese Python.

I saw a pair of Crotalus basiliscus, Mexican West Coast Rattlesnakes in a local reptile zoo that looked like pythons with rattles. They were huge. Thick, long and beautiful. I was lucky enough to get one of their offspring, but he has yet to out grow his 24" Neodesha. If you respect your animals, you will figure out that the venomoid procedure is cruel and unnecessary. Maintain your animals properly, and you can each comfortably coexist without causing each other any pain.

i should have worded it different, what venomous species are thick bodied and in the 4-6' range (ball or blood python size)? i only know a few: gaboon and some species of rattler
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

i live in the southwest corner of vermont so everything i learned about snakes i taught myself or got it off the web. right now i know more that the local "qualified" herp vet. i doubt there is anyone in my area who could teach me, i was thinking maybe i could buy some books and a really big and really mean snake to learn how to handle hots and not get bit. then buy a mildly venomous or calm species as a first hot herp. im only 17 at the moment so this is all plans for the future.
-----
jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Since you know more than the local herp vet...maybe you could help me find the spleen on a snake. We have been having a very hard time locating it even after looking through a variety of snakes.

I also have a parasite I need identified. It resembles coccidia but one vet clinic thought it was round worms. When it was sent to the University of Illinois vet. school all they could do was say it resembles coccidia as well.

I was going to send the photos and a fecal to University of Miami but sometimes the fecals end up clean which also resembles coccidia.

But maybe I can skip that and you can identify it.

the vet knows about parasites but thats pretty much it. i took my snakes for a checkup once and my corn pooped on the table, she thought he might be sick because the poop was watery and had alot of urine in it. then she tried to probe my snake backwards
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

"she thought he might be sick because the poop was watery and had alot of urine in it. then she tried to probe my snake backwards"

Jake,

As for probing backwards...yeah..dumb. However, if when the snake defecates, the stool is really runny and has alot of liquid, that CAN be a sign of illness. Since I didn't see it for myself, I can't say for sure, but I wouldnt doubt your local herp vet too much.

Chris
>>-----
>>jake
>>
>>my addiction:
>>1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
>>0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
>>0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
>>hybrid breeders association
>>hybrid haven
-----
U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

I actually have had to inform a vet before that the hemipenes go the other way. It is somewhat understandable because the best literature on snake anatomy only has one diagram and it ends at the cloaca.

Had vets continued their education getting a masters with some taxonimic direction instead of a DVM...they would know more about reproductive structure...but their field does not require much knowledge about hemipenes unless they are sexing snakes. And I will say that would be dangerous if they went in the wrong direction. She should not have tried if she was not sure.

But understand part of the problem there is overconfidence and she likely thinks she is the most knowledgable herp person in your area and therefor knows everything...you cannot blame her because at a very young age you appear to be going in the same direction.

i am a little over confident but i know that the information i know is just the tip of the iceberg. and there probably is somebody in my area that knows more than me, but in my area most people wouldnt be able to tell you the difference between venomous from constrictor and know so little they believe in fictional snakes and kill every snake they see. i have my work cut out for me on informing the public.
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone to take you under your wing when you feel like you know more than a veterinarian; are you one? Do you have a college degree in biology/zoology? Have you spent time in the lab identifying hundreds of various parasites and then learn about the proper course of treatment? Sure, not every vet has a herp background, however, they know how to refer to the proper texts and know how to figure out the dosages required. Probing backwards, depending on how you look at it, may be the right way (because, in a way, you are probing backwards, or, towards the tip of the tail....are you sure you know how to do it properly?). If the vet probed posterior to the cloaca with the proper location, then h/she did it right.

What's to say that you are not going to bash someone who takes you under their wing to show you the ropes with venomous herps....are you going to suddenly know more than them? That's the sort of personality that I personally will not work with. Those who mentor under me are willing to listen, learn and observe; they never think they know it all; in fact, they know nothing and they know it. They learn to respect those who have been in the field for a long time just as I respect those who I mentored under. I have the highest amount of respect for our veterinary staff. Our raptor vet, who has little experience working with herps, is someone I wouldn't hesitate to go to with a herp related problem because he WILL figure it out.

Just something to consider,

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>i live in the southwest corner of vermont so everything i learned about snakes i taught myself or got it off the web. right now i know more that the local "qualified" herp vet. i doubt there is anyone in my area who could teach me, i was thinking maybe i could buy some books and a really big and really mean snake to learn how to handle hots and not get bit. then buy a mildly venomous or calm species as a first hot herp. im only 17 at the moment so this is all plans for the future.
>>-----
>>jake
>>
>>my addiction:
>>1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
>>0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
>>0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
>>hybrid breeders association
>>hybrid haven
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Vermont is a small state... drive an hour or two and you'll open your horizons.

Dedication is a virtue in most everything... especially when working with something that'll kill you.

Ian

vermont is small but youd be suprised how long it takes to get around on these windy roads they call highways. it takes about three hours to get to new hampshire(im on the ny boarder), and about five hours to get halfway up the state.
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

dude i already said i dont know parasites, i know about care, sexing, breeding(not from expierience), etc. i know i shouldnt be bashing a vet even if i was the first person to bring a snake in, and i do respect those with more herp expierence than me but she doesnt. when i said she probe backwards i meant towards the head with a makeshift probe, he had blood in his feces after that. she didnt give me any information other than how to give my snake dewormer (just in case) and a link to anapsid.org,

as for mentors i know that what i know fits in the palm of thier hand and would never disrespect them and i am always willing to learn more about herps.

im sorry for getting arogant, im glad you guys brought it to my attention, im used to dealing with the "herp ignorant" people that make up 90% of my areas poulation. getting my but handed to me on a tray on these forums helps me realize that im not a genius, i just spend to much time on the internet researching snakes.
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven