Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...I was checking on the snakes about three thirty this morning and found my Argentinian Rainbow, Epicrates cenchria alvarezi was laying her babies. The litter includes 5 full size chunky babies, a pair of half size twins and one slug. These twins are really small, think puny little Milksnake small. (John, you may want to rethink that pegboard issue. LOL) I ordered mice yesterday and did not include any pinkys in the order. I better call and add some to the order. One of the twins has a slight defect in the lower jaw, we shall see how it does. The five big ones have all moved completely free of the membranes and are crawling around in plastic boxes. The twins had a moderate size blob of "yolk" material remaining and are still attached to it. This is not my first twin birth. I had two Jungle Carpets come out of one egg a couple years ago.

AWESOME!!!! I am happy to see that. I check on my girl every day. She has been feeding the whole time and even ate a small rat today, so I don't know. I sure hope so, I would love to see some of those cuties waiting sometime. I did move her to a cage that didn't have holes, just in case.
Do you immediately remove the yolk/babies? This is my first boa breeding. I have a hatchling rack with paper towels ready for them, but wasn't sure about the timing of the transfer.
Man, that is cool. I love my Argentines. When you say twins, are they actually joined or just the same small size. thanks and congrats!

John

Dave,
....If I find the babies being born or just after being born and they are still in the membranes I break the membranes so they can get their heads out and breath. I have a few times seen babies that were unable to break out of the membrane to breath. As soon as they get their heads out and start breathing I leave them alone and let them absorb the last of the yolk sac. I have seen new babies absorb an amazing amount of yolk material in just a few hours but I have also seen little or no absorption occur over as long as two days. Healthy babies that have absorbed the yolk sac completely often look like they have eaten a substantial meal and this can provide them nourishment for a long time if they are not inclined to eat. If the yolk sac has been completely absorbed at the time of birth I still leave them alone after breaking their heads thru the membrane. The yolk stalk is very vascular and if the snake breaks it soon after birth there will be some (usually minor) bleeding. In the first few hours if left alone and the snake stays with the membrane the stalk will shrink and when the snake does break it loose there will be no or at least minimal bleeding. Occasionally a baby will have a large open umbilical wound. These wounds, even the ones that look too big to heal almost always heal up in a few days with no treatment. The twins were delivered inside one membrane and have their yolk stalks attached to the single yolk inside the membrane.
Jeff

>>AWESOME!!!! I am happy to see that. I check on my girl every day. She has been feeding the whole time and even ate a small rat today, so I don't know. I sure hope so, I would love to see some of those cuties waiting sometime. I did move her to a cage that didn't have holes, just in case.
>> Do you immediately remove the yolk/babies? This is my first boa breeding. I have a hatchling rack with paper towels ready for them, but wasn't sure about the timing of the transfer.
>> Man, that is cool. I love my Argentines. When you say twins, are they actually joined or just the same small size. thanks and congrats!
>>
>>John

Congratulations for the twins Jeff!!!!!!
http://www.rubiosreptiles.com

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www.rubiosreptiles.com
"There is an albino at the end of the rainbow"

Jeff,
That is very cool! I have heard of that but never I've never seen it....I hope they both due well....

Chris Olson
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

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signature file edited 3/23/06; contact an admin.

....I must be out of practice posting on this forum....and typing the English language.....sorry for my carelessness....and the "due...."
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

____

signature file edited 3/23/06; contact an admin.

Must be really cool to have twins, Makes me wonder how rare that is?
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
1.0 BCI Salmon
0.1 BCI Ghost
0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave,
...I think twinning is not so rare in snakes. Out of around 1500 baby snakes that I have had there was one two headed Colombian Rainbow, the previously mentioned twins in one egg Jungle Carpets and these twin Argentinian Rainbows. The Colombian Rainbow freak actually had two heads and necks and a toady looking connected midbody section with a single tail. I would assume that it started out as twins but right after conception when rapid cell differentiation and mitosis is occuring the bodies became conjoined. So that is a ratio here of around one in 500 individual eggs or membranes that contains twins. I have heard other breeders talk about this subject. It seems more common in egg layers than live bearers. Shelling occurs just a few days before eggs are laid and so there may be cases of two seperate yolks and babies gettng shelled in one egg as well as two babies sharing a yolk. Two babies sharing the same yolk is I think the only way it happens with live bearing snakes.
Jeff

>>Must be really cool to have twins, Makes me wonder how rare that is?
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC)
>>0.2 kids (CBB)
>>2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
>>2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
>>4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
>>2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
>>0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
>>0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
>>1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
>>0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
>>1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
>>1.0 BCI Salmon
>>0.1 BCI Ghost
>>0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
>>1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Really neat Jeff. I can't believe you'd ever get jaded with seeing newborns. Be interesting to see if the twins are the same sex.
Paul

Congratulations!!

They look great. Never heard of twins from live bearers. Very interesting!

I didn't even know snakes could be actual twins. I did know 2 heads could share one body....but TWINS? ...never even thought of it. That is just incrediably cool. Are you going to do nuture vs environment studies?
....although it would be quite interesting.