Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what is thier personality like? how venomous are they? ive seen a picture of an albino monocled hatching in someones hand, are they that docile?
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Holy Cow!

Jake,
I'm trying to keep in mind that you are only 17, and I was keeping hots at your age under the care of a mentor. But please do us a favor and research some of your queries more thoroughly before posting them here and embarrassing yourself! Get involved with a local Herp Society or inquire at the local Zoo for an individual (not a Zoo employee) that is willing to teach you. You will probably have to wait until you are 18 before someone is willing to mentor you due to liability issues.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Tim,
Why not a zoo employee?

I didn't want him to expect a keeper to be obligated unless they were willing to do so.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Jake,

As to their personality, I can't comment for I have no experience. From what I have read however, they have quite a toxic venom. However, to steal a quote from Al...."Dead is dead, it doesn't matter whether you have been hit by an 18 wheeler or a freight train...your dead." Therefore, it doesn't matter whether you are keeping a copperhead or a king Cobra, you need to provide that snake with the utmost respect and handle them ALL safely. That mean NO FREEHANDLING. Use the proper tools and proper caging. Next, dont get bit because we dont want to see you on one of Wes's newspaper article postings.

As for the photo, I think I know which one you are talking about. There was an individual that decided to post a photo of his Albino Monocled in his hand. 1st of all, it was a venomoid (still doesn't mean you should take that risk), secondly it is a hatchling and therefore I assume could a bit more docile. I wouldnt bet your bottom dollar on it however.

You should treat EVERY venomous snake like it is fully loaded and ready to launch. For the most part, everyone in this forum is against venomoids due to the procedures that the snake undergoes for that surgery.

I fully agree with the previous posters and recommend that you find yourself a mentor in your area and PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.

Good Luck and take care,

Chris

>>what is thier personality like? how venomous are they? ive seen a picture of an albino monocled hatching in someones hand, are they that docile?
>>-----
>>jake
>>
>>my addiction:
>>1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
>>0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
>>0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
>>hybrid breeders association
>>hybrid haven
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

i doubt it was a venomoid, in the picture im refering to the snake is only about 6 inches out of the egg
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Hey Jake. I'm going to try a different approach from the others and answer your questions without much beratement. Sometimes I just want to know information on a particular animal without wanting to keep it. I'm not assuming that's what you're wanting, and in fact I'm betting quite the opposite, but knowledge is power. I'd much rather you go into this with some real, solid information than just people's attitudes and admonishments. The thing you have to understand is, coming to this or just about any other venomous forum and asking questions in a newbie sort of way completely opens you up for assaults from every experienced keeper here. And those assaults are oftentimes completely warranted! Why are these people so quick to jump on newcomers? Mainly because laws are being created at an exponential rate stopping or severely limiting our priviledges to keep these animals. The catalyst behind those laws is usually someone getting bitten, the story making the local and then national headlines, the neighbors getting scared for their children, and the legislature having a knee-jerk reaction.

Okay, so I hope you can understand why people are reacting the way they are. With that being said, I'll try to answer your questions.

>>what is their personality like?

All over the spectrum, literally. I've kept four individuals of this species and each one was different. Ironically, the one cbb of the four was the craziest, and he was an amelanistic. I've seen huge adults that were so docile they appeared as though they could be freehandled without a care in the world. Of course, to do so is to invite an easily fatal bite. Temperaments will also not be exactly the same day to day. Sometimes docile animals will go nuts seemingly without the slightest provocation. Suffice it to say that it's a crapshot, when buying a baby or juvenile, as to how that animal's temperament will develop or retain as it grows.

>>how venomous are they?

Quite. I would imagine the LD50 of their venom ranges somewhere between 0.29 (N. atra, the Chinese cobra) and 0.45 (N. naja, the spectacled cobra). These numbers are not solid measurements by any means, but they do give you an indication of how toxic something is to mammals. Just to put it in perspective, N. atra and N. naja are both more relatively toxic than such nasties as Russell's vipers, Jameson's mambas, EA green mambas, king cobras, and just about any local US hot. Putting it mildly, these snakes don't have to try very hard to kill you with an envenomation. Additionally, despite the common misconception about cobras being neurotoxic, take a look at venomousreptiles.org for some bite photos attributed to N. kaouthia. They can cause massive local destruction; definitely not a pretty sight!

>>ive seen a picture of an albino monocled hatching in someones hand, are they that docile?

In a word: no. I believe I know of the picture you're talking about, not the hatchling, but the one actually coming out of the egg? The person in that photo was definitely taking a risk, but the assumption is that the baby is going to be pretty disoriented when first coming out of the egg and might not easily recognize friend from foe. It could be a fatal mistake. However, that person is located in FL with arguably the best and most accessible antivenom bank and system in place anywhere. I'm not going to make excuses for his posting that picture based on his experience and/or knowledge of how the snakes act, and I don't think it was a good idea to post it.

See, the biggest problem with keeping any venomous snake is complacency, and I think you would be hard pressed to find a long-time keeper who hasn't felt this tendency at least occasionally. Once you've been working with a species, and especially a particular individual for a long time, you begin to feel like you 'know' that animal. Problem is, you don't. You never do. These are reptiles and they function on a completely different level than us humans. They are purely instinctual predators. They are not puppies and despite what even the most enthusiastic young ball python keeper would have you believe, these animals never come to "like" you. They've just happened to find themselves in a situation where they have a tight little habitat, a constant (hopefully) food supply, and the occasional annoyance of a human intruder. Some get more used to this than others, but it's when the keeper begins to think he/she can take risky chances with his/her captives because he/she truly knows the animal is when bites happen. Not all the time, but often that is the case. I'm coming to think more and more that this is just human nature, and I'm not sure there really is a cure for it, but be aware of it before it begins happening.

If you have any more questions, feel free to shoot me an e-mail at najak82@hotmail.com. I'm not going to encourage you to seek out keeping venomous snakes, but again I feel it's important that you are knowledgeable regardless before the attempt is made. Additionally, I noticed you said you lived in VT. I would take a look at the state and local laws where you are before even considering this.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Chance,
Thanks for answering his questions for those of us that were blinded by the reasons behind them!

I have kept over a dozen Monacles since the mid-seventies and they did have varying attitudes with the amels usually being the worst.
On the other hand some were so calm it would be easy to let your guard down!

If you are collecting care and husbandry ifo from the web, look for common denominators throughout these sites. If one site blatantly states something different from all of the others I would use a critical eye in reguards to the information presented. Especially if it relates to handling techniques which sound risky.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

"amels being the worst"
maybe the gene that causes attitude problens is the same on that affects melanin. are het albinos bad?

ive heard in some species of chickens the gene for an all white bird is the same one that causes brain deformitys
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

thanks for all the info, yes i am doing the research mosly because im interested without plans on buying. and as for looking up laws im in the process of it, i wouldnt be suprised if im already breaking laws just by owning a snake
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Responsible ownership of any animal means you research your local laws before ever purchasing the animal. If you think your already breaking laws just by owning a snake, then your showing us you really are not very responsible. Then you proceed to add the smiley face which in turns leads us to believe you think it is funny you may be breaking the law. First you know more that the local "qualified" herp vet, and now you are above the law? This sort of irresponsible behavior is what will cause people in these forms to not want to help you. Think about what you say in here before you say it. Make it sound mature and responsible and you will get all the answers your looking for. If your adolescence attitude will not allow you to communicate like an adult, you will not be treated like an adult in the venomous forum.

the part about breaking laws was just a joke, i know its not illegal to own snakes in my area.
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Christ, cut the kid some slack! Everyone on here makes little jokes now and again. I don't have any hots but I do have some other beasties, and I get on here QUITE often (way too much if you ask my wife). I have a 7year old and a 3 year old and the 7 year old is always asking why some people on here are so mean. I don't think if he ever had a ?? about hots or (any snakes for that matter) for a paper or something he would ask on here, and I think thats too bad. You guys all seem to have a wealth of knowlege. Sorry for the rant, but I would think someone asking ? on here and getting a honest answer (without getting flamed) would be better then going out a catching an EDB or something and getting tagged.
I know of a few kids in my sons classes that are very interested in all kinds of critters, and I told them to check out Kingsnake if they wanted to learn anything about any reptiles. Now I will hope none of them ask any ?? or atleast come to me first.

Just my .02

Mick

Hey bud, shoot me a email. I would like to talk to you for a sec. Polo6918@yahoo.com
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0.1 Normal Burm ( Stewie )
1.1 Albino Granite Burm ( Dollar and Cents )
1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino ( Blue )
0.1 Purple Albino Retic ( Puzzle )
0.2 Kids ( Kaylee and Angie )
0.1 Wife ( Danielle )

after getting tons of mean replies, someone saying hey bud send me an email is a bit creepy
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

NO!! I dont want everyone to see my phone number. I have only helpful things to say. Im not going to bash on you for being the new guy with questions. Its much easier to talk over the phone. You can email me your number or i will email you mine. I was your age when i started and know won was there to help me. I would like to help you, so you dont have to deal with the things i did as a newbie.
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0.1 Normal Burm ( Stewie )
1.1 Albino Granite Burm ( Dollar and Cents )
1.0 Super Tiger 100% Het Albino ( Blue )
0.1 Purple Albino Retic ( Puzzle )
0.2 Kids ( Kaylee and Angie )
0.1 Wife ( Danielle )

Naja kaouthia is generally a very nervous snake, from those that I have captured and encountered in the field. The last one I captured (in my home- posted earlier in this forum) was probably the calmest I have come across. I would NEVER consider free-handling one of them, no matter how docile it appeared to be, because even the 'calm' ones can easily become startled. They are venomous enough to kill you (that venomous). There are some venomous snakes that some people free handle on occasion here in Thailand- Naja kaouthia IS NOT one of them. I was offered an albino Naja kaouthia last year for free- I did not take it.