Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have loved box turtles since I was a child, always keeping one for a couple of weeks during the summer months. I just moved into a new home with a big yard and want to build an enclosure and raise a few turtles. I do have a few questions....I live in Virginia and Eastern seem to be the kind I see in the wild here but can I keep Ornate in my climate outside year round? Secondly does anyone have any suggestions how I go about finding cb box turtles? I understand it is a bad thing to get one out of the wild so I would like to get 2-6 turtles babies or otherwise....any suggestions where I can find any? I am planning on keeping them outside year round in a wooden pen that has a wire bottom filled with dirt vegitation water pan as well as a wire hinge top to keep other animals out. Thank you for your time and input.
Derrick

I wouldn't risk keeping a non native subspecies out doors year round, I'd leave out the wire bottom since the turtles will have to burrow down to brumate, a wire bottom could cause them to freeze to death when they need to dig deeper, unless it's going to be a few feet deep.
for hatchlings you would have to bring them in for winter, most keepers skip brumation for the first 2-3 years of a box turtles life.
as for where to get them, alot of the collecters and breeders will be advertising in a couple months on the classified, usually we start to see hatchlings posted around mid June and as late as Jan. - Feb.

one more thing, make sure you make the enclosure as big as you possible can, also you may end up having to divide it due to an bad ratio of males and females (ratio should be 1 male to every 3-5 females) .
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1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
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Thank you I appreciate your advice. Would you recommend I get adults since I plan to keep them outside? Also should I get captive bred adults and are they hard to come by?
Thanks
Derrick

if you get adults try going through a rescue, like turtle homes, a collecter would sell you a newly caught adult as a captive bred just to make a buck, they are hard to come by as it takes so long for them to fully mature.
Turtle homes website

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My Site
1.2.1 Terrapene Carolina Triunguis
0.1 Nymphicus hollandicus
1.1 Melopsittacus undulatus
1.0 American Cocker Spaniels
1.0 American Short Hair? Cat
1.1 Rouen Ducks

Before purchasing a box turtle consider that it is an exotic pet that has demanding needs. Not something that you want to keep a few weeks and release at the end of summer... That practice takes breeding turtles out of production, and doesn't let them fatten up properly for fall or look for an appropriate area to hibernate while exposing them to pathogens that can be harmful when placed back in the wild. It also plays havoc with their homing instincts and their ability to establish a home range critical to their survival.
Realize that this captive creature needs a special diet and is dependent on you for 60 plus years.
The best advice anyone can give you for wanting to start a box turtle colony is to learn all you can about box turtles including husbandry, diseases and their prevention. Read all the books on eastern box turtles you can find. Search through the web pages here on care and husbandry and when you have reached a point where you think you know how to keep them thriving.....join Tess Cooks on line emailing list on Box Turtle Care....linked to her on line Box Turtle Book. A simple search will take you there. While this advice may seem blunt; it will save you many headaches and heartaches along with some box turtles lives.
Good Luck,
Ric

Ornate adults and older juveniles should be able to live year-round in your area, so long as the enclosure is espace-proof.

In Virginia, you're allowed up to five easterns, no more. There's no permitting process in VA, so if they breed and you go over 5, you're in violation of the regulations!

Try www.anapsid.org to find herp/turtle societies and rescues that might have turtles for adotpion, sale, or trade. Try www.petfinder.com for animals for adoption.

Katrina
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1.2 Eastern Muds - Fred, Ethel, Edith
0.1 Iguana - Tiffel
0.1 Bearded Dragon - Foster
Foster turtles: More than I'd like the husband to know about.

You've been given good advice so far. It really is important to do plenty of research on the subject before you get started, since you are looking at a very long term commitment.

A few other things to consider:

Do you anticipate moving frequently for work or otherwise? Outdoor set ups aren't something that are easily transportable.

Do you have a steady source of income? It may take a considerable financial investment to get everything up and running.

Do you have access to a good herp vet? Finding one beforehand can save heartache down to road.

Can you afford vet bills? Vets charge more for exotics than for other pets, and diagnostic procedures can be pricey.

What do you plan on doing with hatchlings that may result from adults breeding? If you go with Easterns, you won't be able to sell them, in state or out, nor will you be able to legally release them.

Although an individual may keep up to five Eastern Box turtles in Virginia, you would need to obtain a scientific or educational permit in order to legally keep more.

Adopting adults from Turtle Homes or another rescue would be the most ethical (IMHO) way to obtain a pet turtle.

Stephanie

Thank you so much for all of your advice, I really apperciate it. I do have some knowledge of turtles and tortoise care, I have researched in great detail about tortoise husbandry for years now. I may one day commit to getting one but would have to provide an adequate indoor enclosure for the fall and winter.
It is nice to hear that I could keep ornates here in Virginia, I was unsure about that. I do not plan on moving for a long time, I just purchased this home in October. This is not a passing thought, I have wanted to keep box turtles for years but lived in a townhouse so I could not build an adequate place.
Thanks again for all of your advice and input. I am sure I will have further questions along the way.
Derrick

Hey, let me throw my two cents in here while we're at it. I, too, live in the Southeast. While it is true that you can keep ornates outdoors in our climate, there are a few things that I'd like to make you aware of. I've learned some hard lessons in dealing with ornata and luteola. I am currently keeping both with success...finally.

First...DO NOT get adults!! Before I knew about this site, I purchased a "breeder colony" from a guy at a show. He said that they were originally captive bred, and he had been maintaining them in SC for many years. He was full of it. They were wilder than a bobcat. Wild adults do not adapt to captivity easily. Well, they all contracted respiratory infections. Luckily, I worked at a vet and had access to antibiotics, syringes, IV fluids, vitamin solutions, and my vet even helped me do ear abscess surgery. It was a nightmare. Since I've switched over to acquiring juveniles, I have not had a single problem. Plus, if someone has 3 or 4 juveniles that are all the same size and general appearance, you can be fairly sure that they are really captive bred.

Also, make sure that they have a nice, sunny spot. Direct sunlight first thing in the morning until about noon seems to be critical! Give them a lot of structure in the pen. Shrubs, large grasses, logs, and even constructed little houses are all great. They like to have things around that they can run and hide under or near. Even my ltc cb animals still do this...they're very dramatic . Also, try not to pick them up too often.

If you can get a good system down, you will really enjoy these little characters. They have a lot of spirit and personality. Easterns are wonderfully sweet, and the ornates are spunky and fun. That's just my opinion. Now, someone may post and tell you that adults are no problem and you can keep them in a basement and feed them lettuce. But, please, don't get adults...trust me. Between the humidity and the native microorganisms, it's not worth it.

Here's a hatchling ornate...these things grow so fast, I need to update my photos.

You don't need a wire bottom on your pen and that wouldn't
be a good idea anyway. You should, however bury the bottom
of your pen "wall" several inches into the ground.

The bigger risk is climbing out, if you used anykind of fence
material. My pen is made with hardware cloth and I had to build
a rim around the top of the wall to keep them from climbing out.

Also, be careful with ornates. They seem to be more fragile
than the three toads and (presumably) easterns.

I would think they could handle Virginia, since part of their
range is in the upper midwest, but I'd go slow with them,
maybe start out with one or two and have a reptile vet
available.

Try granny’s hillside turtle farm. I have read they sell captive breed box turtles wholesale to pet shops. They also might sell retail.
Grannys hillside turtle farm

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Jack