Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, first off had a HL like thirty years ago.We are from michigan, and my son and I are interested in aquiring one or two.I have been reading everything here and the other site.Ants,well never new about them 30 years ago when I had mine.I see nematodes are a real issue, among others, and usually associated with crickets and other non-ant type food.I can see where ants would be , in my opinion a cleaner food.Do only harvester ants have formic acid in them, and we have a lot of large mounds here near our home, black ants,red and black, red ants. Would some of these be suitable at all for feeding a HL if we owned one, and would they provide necessary nutrients for the warmer months here, and maybe order harvesters in the winter or hibernate HL's at that time.Also, if you had two different species of HL's in a tank would they get along and do they cross breed?One more, I see some advert in the classifieds here, sent an E-mail but no reply (exotic),is there anyone reliable to get one from?Thanks scott.

Look in the King Snake Classifieds,

http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?index.html

there are some for sale mostly DHL's

Look in the King Snake Classifieds,

http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?index.html

this is a betr link
http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=34

there are some for sale mostly DHL's

Hi Scott,
Good for you for asking here before buying. It's good that you have read a lot. These guys are high maintenance. I have a buddy who keeps rattlesnakes, other snakes and lizards, scorpions and tarantulas, and he says by far the horned lizards are his most high maintenance animals. LOL
Do you know what kind of HL you had 30 years ago? How long did you have him? I am just curious how well he did on the antless diet.
Ants aren't really a very clean food. They actually do carry eggs or worms in them at times. But horned lizards seem adapted to deal with these pests better than exotic pests that they have no history with.
The only reputable HL dealer I have ever encountered is Sundial Reptiles regarding HL's. I don't believe he is still breeding them. They are just to time intensive and difficult to make a profit on for the most part. So what you have left is the folks who go out and catch them in the wild by the hundreds, if not thousands, and sell the to an unsuspecting public. I say unsuspecting because they will usually tell you they eat crickets or meal worms. Most don't even mention ants, and those that do will probably mislead you on type and quantity.
All that said, you can probably get a fairly healthy HL this time of year from a dealer, because HL's are somewhat resilient and usually take weeks to really start showing signs of starvation or malnutrition. My first experience was with a commercial dealer and I ordered sometime in Nov or Dec if I remember correctly. This is the end of the season and the HL's I got we so skinny and sickly I spent the next six months nursing them back to health. Only lost one of them, but it was a real labor to get them back to normal. And they were never quite right.
This is what they all (4) looked like:

If you do much reading on this forum you will come to quickly recognize the folks who have purchased these in the past. The post subject usually begins with "Help!"
If anyone is planning on buying from a commercial collector, you might consider asking them a few questions. Ask them what they eat. Ask them how big a tank they need. Depending on the answers you get you will probably get a feel for how well these folks know the animal, hence whether they have a care for their wellbeing. I would suggest that non-reputable dealers be avoided at all costs. You might even try to educate them at the same time and tell them why they lost your business.

They are a difficult species. Those considering them will hopefully take this to heart and ask themselves if they are really up to the challenge, because challenge it is.

It is far better to catch your own for several reasons, you can ensure that it is done in a legal manner, you will likely get a healthy animal, and you won't be supporting the pet industry, which seems to have little issue with the inevitable deaths of thousands of horned lizards each year.
There are some folks on this board that breed horned lizards and have some available, but these usually come up in Nov or Dec, after the breeding season. A possible adoption program is in the works and may happen before the year is out.

Sorry for the long post. I just feel that it is that time of year when the wild HL harvest is coming to market and that it would be a good idea if folks had a better idea what they are in for.
Cheers and good luck!

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www.phrynosoma.org

First, mark I don't mind the long post at all.Really trying to find out what its all about.I was like 14 when I had the horned toad.He was in great health,don't remember what I even fed him.I used to take him outside a lot to hunt his own insects.Almost lost him in the shrubs one time.Actually a longer post would have answered more of my questions.Can my local ants help with food quantity, etc.Also , I have sent at least two e-mails to a HL ad on here and no reply.The horned toad I had years ago had two main hornes, I do remember that.When I look at the skull configurations on the net,it seems to me it was a coronatum.It looks most familiar.Let me know more about availability if possible.I am not ready now, have to get a tank setup and ready first.I know its a challenge to do these, but in my opinion any lizard is going to take care to some degree.My daughter bought a bearded dr and they told her nothing about UV and such, and yes he got sick.So all they really care about is PROFIT.Which is sad.thanks again, scott.

It's really hard to say judging by your description what ants you have. Most ants are black or red or both. Do you have any photos?
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www.phrynosoma.org