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I built it December 05. It has withstood with no problems. Very easy maintence. Enjoy.

At first glance you have a very nice set-up!
However its of no use for your captives, that watering system dose nothing for your lizard (except maybe stress) a much better way to use your water system and way more usable for your lizards, would be to make it flow on one of the walls covered with cork or similar material your lizards can cling to, this way you can use more then halve the enclosure floor for nesting material. The only real use for a water system is to allow atmospheric humidity, becarie don’t really need much anyway, and they do drink from a bowl or any water source, of course a water system like yours can occasioned much more problems then benefits. Iv been keeping my prasinus group in the 40-65% humidity rang for 17 years and never sprayed them. Clean accessible water and proper heat is far more beneficial then any types of watering drip system.

Sorry if you don’t like my commentary, but its not intended for you but your lizards.

You did a wonderful job building that cage. But you only attended to one basic need and ignored many others.

Keeping monitors is not very complicated. There are only a few basic physical needs. To successfully keep any monitor species, you only have to attend to a few basic things. Temp range that is of use. Humidity range that is of use. A basic suitable diet.

Then address life functions. If you do not address life functions, you should not expect to see them.

Your ignoring nesting. Your ignoring suitable homes. And lastly your ignoring social control. All to concentrate on "rain".

As Jobi mentioned, monitors only like rain if they are dehydrated, if not, it adversely effects their ability to control their temps.

But what a great job of cage building. Truthfully, with that ability you can build whats needed without question. Cheers

Hello Frank.
I will add some hollow logs, good idea. I have in lone male, so nesting/breeding isn't an issue right now. I do have a hide box in which he regularly sleeps at night. I am however looking for a female. The top portion of the enclosure contains the higher levels of heat and humidity, I believe that gives him a range as evidenced by the gauges. I've seen him drink from the leafs when my system is on. He also comes down to swim around sometimes. From what I've read and discussed with others, tree monitors don't use floor space that often. Well, time will tell. Thanks for the compliments on the build.
RoadSpawn....

And using the ground. You say other treemonitor keepers say they do not use the ground. Here I really disagree. I find it a lot like keepers and ackies. A whole lot of keepers say ackies do not dig. And in their cases its true. But that does not make ackies non diggers(burrowers).

The same goes for prasinus. In both cases, if you do not give them what they recognize, they do not dig. For me, Prasinus dug like crazy. They make tunnels and chambers and rooms. The problem was, getting the right material for them to dig in. Remember, this is the same for many monitor species, including ackies.

Of course those other keepers will take this crazy and say something like, "so your saying they don't climb" This is unfortunately a very naive attitude many have.

Of course they are climbers, Of course they use small trees(mangroves) But what makes people think their lives are restricted to ONLY that?

Once you see them dig and tunnel, hmmmmmm, they actually tunnel, they do not dig like many other monitors. They tunnel like an earthworm. Once you see this, you will get a greater view of what prasinus is. To tunnel, does not take away from climbing, it adds to it.

The problem many people have is, they must think monitors are like anoles or chams. Those types of lizards, spend the vast majority of their lives in foliage. So their color does indeed reflect that. Monitors of all types do not, they spend the majority of their lifes inside something, thats kinda why people think they are rare. So I ask, inside what?

Once I was hit with a epiphany whilest running around in the bush(hot sun beating on my head) I was wondering why so many species of stinking burrowing monitors are in one place. You know, all those dinky monitors in parts of oz. They all food on about the same things, they all live in about the same types of foliage. Then it came to me, there are lots and lots of different soil types for them to adapt too.

Now I wonder, I can easily see greentrees being in green foliage(ok, no really see) But what the heck is a black monitor doing in green foliage? or a blue one? Or a brown/olive one? see, I wonder things too. Cheers

Frank, I understand that you have made many trips to Oz to experience monitors in the wild, but have you ever visited New Guinea or any of its adjacent islands and observed members of the Varanus prasinus group in the wild? (or perhaps even the Iron Range/McIlwraith Range in N. Queensland to see V. keithhornei?).

The reason why I ask, is that here you are, arguing that it is 'normal' for V. prasinus to dig and burrow and build chambers, based on your observations of them in captivity (in Tuscon, Arizona), and are suggesting that this burrowing behavior is a natural behavior which wild conspecifics participate in regularly.

Have you ever questioned whether or not your V. prasinus were exhibiting such behaviors due to the conditions you were providing them with/what they were exposed to? Have you ever suspected that the conditions you were offering were incorrect, and that the behaviors you observed were nothing more than attempts to escape inadequate conditions?? Perhaps they were trying to get away from the heat and lack of humidity that your place of residence is almost always exposed to? I would tend to think that maintaining adequate temperatures and humidity levels for such a humidity-loving species in your situation/area- Tuscon, Arizona (the desert) would be quite demanding and challenging.

I recall you mentioning to me(and other members of the online varanid community) that you used to house your V. prasinus and V. beccarii outdoors(several other individuals who have visited you years ago have seen this as well). Now to me, the climate of Arizona does not seem too favorable for such a species adapted for life in lowland tropical rainforests, but what do I know? Perhaps the desert climate of Tuscon Arizona is consistent with the climate of New Guinea's lowland tropical rainforests?

In such a situation (tree monitors in desert-like conditions), I could, in fact I would expect to see tree monitors digging down to escape both the heat and lack of humidity on the surface. However this would be an attempt to escape hostile conditions, not a regular aspect of their daily lives.

Out of curiosity, since we are talking about your personal experiences with tree monitors, what ever happened with your V. prasinus, and why do you think you failed with this species??

With such claims, you are stating that those individuals who have never observed burrowing behavior/chamber-building behavior in their V. prasinus are keeping their animals improperly. Of the many private individuals and zoological institutions which have in fact bred V. prasinus complex members (successfully hatched out ), there has not been a single documented observation of such a burrowing behavior as you describe, nor has there ever been any such behaviors reported in any field observations of these monitors in the wild.

So I suppose what you are getting at in your previous post, is that, based on your experiences with V. prasinus(which in reality is a failure to hatch out this species, as well as a lack of wild observation of this complex), everybody else(those who have observed them in the wild, and those who have indeed bred them in captivity) is wrong..

Now that does not make much sense to me at all.. You are denouncing those who have succeeded, based on your failures..?????
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Treemonitors.com

My how aggressive. You seem to have a lot of pent up anger. I have to wonder, are you so angry because of your successes or because of all your failures??

If you would spend half the energy thinking about the monitors, instead of defending your ego, you would understand, you do not have to go to indo to safely state that prasinus climb. After all, they appear to be build to climb, and when you put a branch in the cage, they "know" how to climb it. Is that true? Remember, that is not in indo either.

Its also safe to say, if you see them burrow with proficiency, you would think somewhere in their history they must have burrowed. I think SCIENCE says, they normally do not have abilities and behaviors that they do not use. I am not all that smart, but if they are good at something and I surely did not teach them to burrow, then they must have DONE it before.

Also, for arguements sake, have you ever heard of the IRON RANGE. Its in Oz. and it has prasinus type monitors.

You know, you should really stay away from my posts, they surely cannot be good for your health, I am worried about you. Thanks

See man, this is the kind of off-topic defence I have pointed out in our arguments. Saying that they climb is completely unnecesarry. Also, he did not say that they do not burrow in the wild. He said they burrow to escape hostile conditions and that the conditions in Tuscon Az are hostile to tree monitors.
Also, I do not believe he was being any more aggressive than your posts generally are. He used generations of monitors not burrowing to prove a point just as you use generations of monitors without UV to prove a point.
Also, His idea that tree monitors would only burrow to escape unfavorable conditions is very consistant with your idea that desert monitors only soak in water to escape unfavorable conditions.

from my previous post:

"Frank, I understand that you have made many trips to Oz to experience monitors in the wild, but have you ever visited New Guinea or any of its adjacent islands and observed members of the Varanus prasinus group in the wild? (or perhaps even the Iron Range/McIlwraith Range in N. Queensland to see V. keithhornei?)."

Frank, my post has nothing to do with my ego, it has to do with your denouncement of the works of many other keepers and breeders and field herpers, and your insisting that you are right- all the time, and that everybody else is wrong.

Please understand that I merely brought up the simple fact that you have not succeeded with Varanus prasinus, yet here in this thread you are telling people that they were wrong for following approaches which have resulted in captive breedings(hatchings), or believing that V. prasinus does not naturally burrow.. What grounds do you have to tell people THEY are wrong??

What was that thing that you always talk about, that people should have before telling something how something is... oh yeah, RESULTS.. Well, where are they? I haven't seen any photos of 'generations' of green tree monitors with the goanna ranch logo slapped across it..
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Treemonitors.com

Sorry Bob, you should reread your own posts, I try to stay away from your posts. I think at one time we made some sort of deal, along those lines, Why don't you stick to it.

Bob, I have been to the Iron range and I have been to indo. But as you know, prasinus are not my idea of what I like in a monitor. So that means I do not waste my time on things that do not blow my skirt up.

Again weather or not I did, has nothing to do with the post. Prasinus are monitors. Monitors spend a great deal of the time in. The big secret that monitors keep is the in this area, the in.

What bothers me about you is words, you take far to much importance in words and being right or wrong for that matter. Aboreal, burrower, indo, desert, ozzie, etc, have no bearing in cages. the caged animals are IN CAGES. Also, you think pointing out wrong is fun. ITs meaningless, we are wrong all the time. Its the times we are right that has value. Think about that.

Being in, burrowing, does not mean its the ground. Because its on the bottom of your cage, does not mean its the earth. The branches in your cage are not aboreal either.

Whether they burrow in leaflitter on the forest floor, or inside a dead tree or parts of a tree thats dead, does not matter, in captivity. Whether its mulch in a dead tree or mulch on the forest floor, again does not matter in a cage. Your cage will never be, earth or aboreal, or mid elevation. Your cage and mine, will always and forever only be cages. They will normally go from the floor to at most the ceiling. Never reaching the status of aboreal or subterrian.

Our task is to give them things they recognize. Whether is dirt for a sand monitor, leaflitter for forest monitors, or decomposed plant material, its makes no difference. IN fact, you do not need to know the country of origin or species. You may be better off not knowing anything and offering different materials and SEE what they like and use, not what they are suppose to like and use based on your or "somebodies" illconcieved notions.

In fact, my opinion is, monitors would be far better of if we did not know anything(or think we know) and we simply took care of them, based on what they choose. Cheers and leave me alone. I am done with you.

Turn about is fair play. You are always talking about results. Others have achieved life events in setups different from the one you recommend. Is this not the objective of monitor keeping? Is there not more than one way to skin a cat? And if you haven't achieved all the expected life events for this species and others have, isn't there a chance that you could learn something from them instead of ridiculing their experience. I know that you guys don't get along but in this case it seems that they may actually be right. And we are talking about what benefits monitors not people, are we not.

Yes, results is what its about. And if your keeping score, the results are no different then many. Lots of eggs and few if any neonates. Please do not say its not about breeding, if it wasn't the person in question would not seek sexual pairs, he would not provide nesting, he would not put opposite sexes together. His approach is and has been to breed them. That is not so hard to see. To breed them means to recieve babies, not eggs.

Many of you then say, but hes working with prasinus. Well, there are many many people who have captive bred and hatched prasinus type monitors, there are several that have taken them thru generations.

In an interview with me by the founder of Vivarium Mag, in the mid ninties(Goannaman speaks)(he named me that, not I), I stated that monitors were the easist reptile I ever bred, but not the easist to actually hatch eggs(recieve neonates) This indicates even a decade ago, that recieving eggs is easy and common, and this is with all species of monitors.

If you watch forums, you will see many many keepers recieve eggs, but only a small percentage hatch them. Sir, that is were the techniques and methods become important. At least to the next level of expertise.

There are many keepers who have no problem breeding and hatching many species of monitors. There are several in Europe that breed and hatch what ever they decide to work with.

I have also bred and hatched what ever I decided to work with. The really nice part of this is, we are suppose be able to work with what we want. In all cases, the husbandry and techniques were very similar. The main difference has been size of cages, not some magical technique.

The key importance is prolonged diligence. You really have to stay with it.

If this fella stays with it and takes the responsibility for his errors, then decides to learn from those errors, he will progress and become very successful with lots of results. But until that time, hes all talk and mostly about people.

If I were to analize the differences between him and many academics, compared to my approach. I would say the fundamental difference is, he and the academics take more importance with the written word and more importantly, the authors, then they do the subject, the monitors.

I on the otherhand take the subject as the most important and all written words and authors, including myself, as second or much farther down the list, depending on what we are thinking and saying. Not much difference, but enough to make all the difference in recieved results.

Again, the subject is monitors. In the case of this forum, its about reallife monitors. Its not about theory and supposition on monitors, which is clearly what academics are interested in, and they are welcome to it. At least the ones how argue or discuss papers and theories over results. I hope you understand, no matter what you call yourself, if you take forumla and theory over hardcore repeatable results, you are not being very scientific or "a biologist" as first and foremost, they are taught to seek "repeatable results" to validate theories and forumlas. To think in terms of absolute right and wrong is totally naive, no worse(put your own word here).

This goes back to this discussion, the person in question, has repeatedly recieved eggs, so far so good, but has shown a near complete pattern of failure to hatch eggs. This is fact. This is common with keeping monitors of all species. Most keepers that recieve ackie eggs fail to hatch most, most keepers that recieve Kimberly eggs, fail to hatch them, Most people who recieve Sav eggs and many do, fail to hatch them. A person immediately before him did the same, only he hatched a couple more. Nothing new here.

This is reality. Ask around instead of picking sides. Cheers

OK, I'll bite. Of those who have taken V. prasinus through generations, what type of setup did they use? Have they ever published their results(Not that it really matters but it does help if you can do something more than say I know a guy who has). I would be sincerely interested if someone, anyone, could describe a successful setup for these animals that has produced viable offspring through several generations. And remember, this is about monitors not about me. I think my questions are valid and I would be TRULY interested if someone could provide this for me. Heck, I'll buy a round or two for said someone

Not Europe, but use to be in NY, and now in Indo as from what the website says...

http://www.kingsnake.com/dnj/

FR probably knows them.....

Its not my business to tell you, who did what. My task is only to make you aware of what has happened. The person in question, has knowledge of many if not most of these, if not more.

Even funnier, Several types of prasinus were bred very well, BEFORE, I even kept monitors. The first I heard was a python fella in Europe, he would tell me stories. Another is a really good monitor breeder in Frankfurt. We use to get along well, but other folks caused problems there. There are lots.

So you should investigate. Let me think, Two in phoenix, one got out of reptiles the other is THE, in the case, "The" has meaning, breeder of color morphs of Boas. He use to own a reptile shop, now he breeds all sorts of reptiles at home.

One is a well known vet in the northeast, we have had tons of great conversations(under the influence of drink and reptiles) More then one in Fla, the list is long.

So I leave it to you to validate it, now that your aware it has been done. If you read Daniel Bennetts first book, the little book of monitors, it cites many breedings of indo monitors. I think prasinus is amoung them. In fact, many citings of multiclutching. Read it, you will enjoy it. Those citings were from a long time ago.

Theres may be another differences between us, when I got into monitors, I read these things, then I visited those who wrote them. As well as going and seeing monitors in nature. I do not believe listening to something on the internet or reading in a book is actually learning, seeing and doing is learning, reading is to be made aware of possibilities. Cheers

Ok, so you say you know plenty of people who have taken them through generations. Did they use the substrate for burrowing that you say is necesarry? And if they did use that, but other people have taken them through generations without the substrate that allows for burrowing, then by your logic (go by what works), isn't it still unnecesarry to provide a substrate that allows for burrowing with these monitors?
It seems like you continue to get off the true topic (whether or not these monitors need to burrow). If someone has proven that they can be taken through generations without a substrate they can burrow in, then it is settles and that substrate is not needed.

Frank, youre saying: "A whole lot of keepers say ackies do not dig. And in their cases its true."

So you will agree with me that this is not a normal or good situation. An ackie that dosent burrow would be sign of lack of something in it environements, not enough digging material or not the right kind,proper temps, moisture, can be a lot of reasons.

After, youre saying: "For me, Prasinus dug like crazy"

Well you said it yourself, in your case it's true, but maybe youre wrong. Well this can be possible,no? Maybe this behavior is just a sign that you didnt do your homeworks and did not give what prasinus would want?

Simon

Maybe I didn't, then maybe I did, hahahahahahahahaha these maybes are real funny and fun. You can maybe yourself around the world. Go for it.

Acutally I perfer, works, to maybes. cheers

Yes its true you have good skills and you’re cage looks good.

I would stick the largest heat pad on the bottom side wall and fill the entire bottom with sphagnum moss, then id take all the fake leaves and smaller vine out, and replace them with think hollow logs 4-8in diameter placed both horizontal and vertical, enough for your monitors to squirrel around them, this is natural behaviour. Needles to say id discard the water system and use 2 or 3 water sources placed at different levels, then all you need is support, I prefer tong feeding, it creates a bond reduces stress and allows you to see how your lizards are progressing.

Of course other mediums can be used, but considering that your cage is in the living, you may want to keep weight and critters to a minimum.

This female is nesting under 6in of sphagnum, I removed the moss to take photo.

Hello
Could you post some pics of your green tree monitor enclosure? Thanks....

I have a pair of beccarii,my cage is build kind of yours and it works. The bottom is an enire water bassin(empty) and they never go on the floor( rarely), even when there was substrate at the bottom. My female wont drink from a bowl, only from the mysting system. The only thing I can say is that it will be good to cover the wall with something they can climb too, they love vertical!

Simon

Hey
I'm looking into hollow logs and cork lining for the walls. Thanks
RoadSpawn

Here is a picture of my Gree tree Monitor's enclosure.

Do you have a pair? Do you have any type of rain system? Thanks for the pic.
RoadSpawn

I do have a pair in there as well as I am using a rainmaker rain system

Hey Robert,

The only things that I would recommended you do for the enclosure is to offer more tight-fitting hides, make use of those barren walls by rendering them climbable, and to perhaps swap out some of those skinny/narrow branches for some thicker-diametered limbs(their body plan is not an adaptation for utilizing thin branches- I would shoot for over 4" in diameter).

Other than that, you've constructed a wonderful enclosure for your V. beccarii. Keep up the good work with him.

Bob
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Treemonitors.com