Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well Nigel and Navi have been seperated, and since then Nigel was only eating a little and now he seems to not be eating at all. He seems very weak and I am worried about him. Is he upset about being seperated since he did seem to enjoy her company (she was the one who got nasty, she is 3 weeks older) or did I wait to long to seperate them?? If that is the case, please understand that I had intended to seperate them much sooner, but intent is nothing without action and I realize that. I just want to know now what if anything I can do for him?? We have been debating on the best way to make a cage setup and I thought that I had a little more time. It seems like just all of a sudden she was bigger and hogging the food and one day I noticed her puffing and gaping at him, so I seperated them immediately. I think that from this I have learned one valuable lesson. No matter what ANYONE says, I will never house ANY age chams together again, at all PERIOD. Try and learn from mistakes. Although I would have expected better advice from a breeder. I must say however that I should have taken the advice of Kinyonga and others who advised not to do this. I just hope that this mistake will not be at the expense of Nigel. I guess I just thought that we would be able to get a cage made sooner and things would go more smoothly. So, any ideas from anyone about what I can do for him, or what may be the problem here?? Thank you in advance for ANY advice.

He may have gotten a bit less food due to her dominance and have gotten stressed from that and now the cgae move.

Since this is a new setup can you give us the rundown? (pics of setup would be good, too) I think you know the "drill" but here's the list:
1-Cage type: Size and type of cage (screen/glass)
2-Temps: - Basking area and lower in cage. How do you measure the temps in your setup? What is the temp in the warmest spot? The coolest spot? At night? During the day? You should be measuring the temp of the cham's skin or the surface of its current branch to get the most accurate reading. Do you leave any heat on at night? What is the temp in the room at night?
3-Lighting: - What brand is your UVB light? How long have you been using it? Do you leave any lights on at night? How long are your lights on each day? Where are the lights? on top?
4-Humidity: Do you have a humidity gauge? What is the range of relative humidity (RH) from lowest to highest? How long does it take to go from high to low? Do you use a humidifier? Do you live in the north or south (or other)?
5-Water: How often do you mist? Do you have a dripper? have you seen him/her drink?
6-Food : What is s/he eating? Where are you getting them? What are you feeding the feeders? Fresh veggies? Gutload? If you use a commercial gutload what is the brand? If you make your own what are the ingredients?
7-Supplements What and how often do you dust and with what (brand)?
8 –Plants/branches: What plants do you have? Are your plants alive or fake? lots of coverage where he will feel safe? Can you see your cham most of the time or can it hide from your view?
9-Cham facts: How old is s/he? Do you know if s/he is wild caught or captive born? Did you get him at a show? Breeder?
10-Handling: Do you handle your cham? How often and how long? What's its reaction to you? Is the cage in a quiet part of the house or is it in a busy or noisy area? Any big stereo speakers near the cage? Is your cham alone in the cage? Can it see any other herps or pets from the cage?
11-Vet Do you have one who KNOWS chameleons?
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Well, he waws not the one moved, he is in his original enclosure which has his basking area, and reptisun 5.0 for UVA. His enclosure has not changed at all and last I posted everyone said it was fine. I use silk plants and fake branches because none of the nurseries around me sell organic or know where I can get any "clean" plants. I feed crickets and some wax worms. I have not tried any veggies yet. I gutload my crickets with a variety of fruits, veggies, and grains. I use the normal dusts like rep cal and the multivitamin. I don't dust everytime because they were getting buildup and the discharge from the nose, which Kinyonga said would stop if I decreased the amount I was giving them. He can see the leopard geckos if he wants but they could see them before, and the geckos would love to watch the chams. So is that a problem?? They are not close together. He drinks but lately I have not seen him drink. We mist like 3-4 times a day. Nigel drinks when we are not watching (well, when he thinks we are not watching otherwise how would I know right) and Navi drinks all the time. She is a big eater. Doing GREAT. Nigel just seems sedentary, and almost depressed if I can use that for a cham. Nothing has changed recently other than moving Navi to the new enclosure, they cannot see each other. We do hold him occasionally and he stays nice and green. He will hiss a little when we try to get him but he is ALWAYS green, only recently has he done ANY changing. The other day, I went to get him and he lunged away and slipped down a few branches and stayed green but with some dark spots. He looked like a pickle. Anyway, does any of this help?? Thanks.

a pickle! you mean like this?

what are his basking temps?
is he spending time basking and then moving around to other parts of the cage?
does he seem to be grasping his branches OK?
does his casque and legs look straight and normal?

a note about the dusting...the salts from the nose may in part be from excess Ca but it is also from natural salts in water. You may want to consider bottled water for dripper and mister.

seeing the geckos could definately be part of the problem. Before I got Cyrus (lives in office) I would often bring Darwin to the office window to get sun (he lives in the bedroom). Well, it was such a habit that I forgot about Cyrus (Darwin could care less) and saw Cyrus swaying and staring and puffing so when I followed his gaze he was looking at Darwin all laid out on the window sill! oops! Now Darwin has to settle for the BR window. Anyway...adjust the cages or put up partition and see if it helps.

If he pulled away and lunged you may just want to leave him alone for a bit - how old? (I think I keep asking you that but I can't keep all our youngin's in my head! I need to make a chart to refer to when posting! lol!)

Does he cup feed? If so, you could try letting some crix climb the screens. They usually congregate right arond the basking light so they are easy marks. Hope this helps somewhat!
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

nymphs brother. Nijel dosen't seem to have the stregnth to hold on to the branches. He seems like he's trying to though. So... He also He also hasn't grown nearily as fast as the other one, but I think it's probly because he got bullied and ate less... Dunno...Any thoughts?

if he is having trouble gripping, that is not a good sign. If he was not eating as much it also means he was not getting enough in supplements and gutload nutrition from feeders. When they don't get enough Calcium, especially when they are young and rapidly growing, MBD can set in.

Considering what you just told us, I might recommend a vet visit to do a calcium/blood level check. Do you guys have a vet that knows chams?

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Well, I have a vet that knows chams but I don't know as though he is an expert. There is an expert highly recommended one about 45 minutes away from here. But I am wondering about something. He shed today, and he acted this way the last time that he shed. Could that be the cause of this??

I force fed him 3 wax worms last night, and he did fine with those. And I misted him with warm water. If by some chance he did have MBD, what can they do for that?? Is there anything that I can do for that in the mean time before his vet visit??

By the way, he was CBB, and has always been a shy eater. Navi just grabs anything and everything that she can get, but Nigel is a patient stalker of his prey. He also does not seem like he has grown that much since I got him, but then again I see him everyday so I may be wrong. But is there a possibility of a congenital problem with chams??

I got him on Feb 28 and he was three weeks then according to the breeder, so now he is about 3 months. How big should he be at three months??? If he keeps doing this when he sheds and then is fine, shouldn't I just make a vet appointment anyway, or is this normal??? Navi does not act that way but I know that all animals are different, but this seems odd to me. Thanks for the advice again, and please let me know what you think about all this.

You said..." I don't dust everytime because they were getting buildup and the discharge from the nose, which Kinyonga said would stop if I decreased the amount I was giving them"...I think I remember telling you to change the amount of supplements that you were giving them, but I don't think I would have said that you should change it because of the nose discharge. (I tried to find the post with that conversation in it, but I couldn't.)

I think lele could be on the right track...could you post a recent picture of him, please? Being that we are not vets, we can't diagnose, of course.

I have also seen a few veileds who just don't do well/grow/thrive from birth. I don't really know the cause. I did have an autopsy done on one that didn't grow from the beginning and it came back deficient in one vitamin....but I don't knopw if that was the reason for its slow growth. Navi reacts the way a normal veiled youngster should act from the sounds of it...eager to eat.

You asked..."If by some chance he did have MBD, what can they do for that??"...they can correct the balance between the calcium, D3 and vitamin A...and if its done soon enough he should still live a long life.