Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What would the possible outcome be with breeding a bumblebee to a pastel? Thanks..........

25%-Pastel
25%-Bumble Bee
25%-Super Pastel
25%-Killer Bee
-----
Adrian
AFR
http://imageevent.com/afreptiles

you could also get spiders

unless you count the killer bee (super pastel spider)and bumblebee (pastel spider). All will be pastel something or other.

Cheryl

>What would the possible outcome be with breeding a bumblebee to a pastel?

As I understand it, a bumblebee's genotype is heterozygous spider and heterozygous pastel. And the pastel's genotype would be heterozygous pastel and normal at the spider locus.

pastel (heterozygous) x pastel (heterozygous) -->
1/4 homozygous pastel = super pastel
2/4 heterozygous pastel = pastel
1/4 normal

spider (heterozygous) x normal -->
1/2 spider (heterozygous) = spider
1/2 normal

Putting the two loci together, I get
1/8 super pastel, spider = killer bee
1/8 super pastel, normal = super pastel
2/8 pastel, spider = bumblebee
2/8 pastel, normal = pastel
1/8 normal, spider = spider
1/8 normal, normal = normal

Paul Hollander

So what does the Punnett Square look like?
-----
RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

I haven't been able to figure out how to put a decent Punnett Square on these forums. The pastel produces two types of gametes (P s and p s), and the bumble bee produces four types of gametes (P S, p S, P s, and p s. S = spider, s = normal, P = pastel, and p = normal). This makes a 4x2 grid:
PP Ss | Pp Ss
Pp Ss | pp Ss
PP ss | Pp ss
Pp ss | pp ss

Result:
1/8 PP Ss = killer bee
1/8 PP ss = super pastel
2/8 Pp Ss = bumblebee
2/8 Pp ss = pastel
1/8 pp Ss = spider
1/8 pp ss = normal

In my opinion, the branching system is better than the Punnett Square for two or more loci. I can do a branching system with pencil and paper in half the time and with fewer mistakes than a Punnett Square. But a branching system is harder to do on these forums than a Punnett Square.

Paul Hollander

This is the Punnet Square, notice 1 in 8 is a spider.

Key: S = Spider(Capital because dominant)
s = Normal(recessive to spider)
P'= Pastel(Codominant)
P = Normal(Codominant with pastel)

S s P' P X s s P' P

S P' S P s P' sP

s P' S s P' P' S s P' P s s P' P' s s P' P

s P S s P' P S s P P s s P' P s s P P

s P' S s P' P' S s P' P s s P' P' s s P' P

s P S s P' P S s P P s s P' P s s P P

1/8 Normal
1/8 Killer Bee
1/8 Super Pastel
1/8 Spider
1/4 Bumble Bee
1/4 Pastel

damn that didn't work

A long time ago I was able to post HTML tables to kingsnake but either I forgot how or it doesn't support them anymore. One of the banner breeder's sites supports them and I think I've posted a table for this cross there but not sure if I'd be allowed to link from here to there.

Maybe kingsnake could turn HTML on in just one area and we could post squares there and link them from other forums? If anybody wants it I wrote an Excel macro for turning a range of cells into a html table tags but I've not found many snake forums where I can use the tables.

I used to use the HTML preformat tag when making Punnett Squares on this forum. But that doesn't seem to work, either. Seems to me the plus character and the HTML tags stopped working about the same time, when the new forum format went into effect.

Do Visual Basic tags work? I vaguely recall something about using them. But I know zip about VB and have never thought about hunting up a VB book when I was in the computer section of the library.

Paul Hollander

My old corn snake genetics program was written in VB but you had to download it and install. I think even with the new .net you need some unusual server side support (Microsoft rather than the more common open source) to actually run it on a web page. I've just started to look into XML as a possible solution for an online virtual pairing interface but don't know how much time I'll have for that.

If you look at the Punnett Square in the previous post, you will see that the first line and the third line are identical. And the second and fourth line are identical. Because the pastel parent produces only two different types of gametes instead of four. In cases like this, it saves time and energy to simply drop the third and fourth line and go with a 4x2 grid instead of a 4x4 grid.

An cross of Aa Bb x aa bb can be shrunk to a 4x1 grid, because the aa bb parent produces only a b gametes.

A cross of Aa bb x aa Bb can be shrunk to a 2x2 grid. Because the Aa bb parent produces two types of gametes: A b and a b. And the aa Bb parent produces two types of gametes: a B and a b.

Paul Hollander

For some reason I was thinking killerbee x pastel when I thought it out. Duh!

Cheryl

Spider Pastel aka Bumble Bee
x
Pastel

12.5% normal
25% Pastel
12.5% Super Pastel
12.5% Spider
25% Spider Pastel aka Bumble Bee
12.5% Spider Super Pastel aka Killer Bee

http://www.geneticswizard.com/a_R2_calc.asp
-----
Brandon Nixon