Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just remembered this....
http://apt.allenpress.com/aptonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=1042-7260&volume=032&issue=01&page=0115

A friend of mine in PA used to use ivermectin quite often to reat filarial
worms, and other, fendbedazol resistant worms. He had very good
luck with it, in fact.

One very BIG and EXTREMELY IMPORTANT factor was th
emethods he used to treat the chameleons.

Ivermectin, if given to an animal with heavy parasite infection, will kill it
most of the time. The ivermectin will kill off almost all the worms
quickly. The chameleon will usually not be able to cope with the
resulting infections caused by the dead parasites in it's body. Just about
very time a WC chameleon was given ivermectin FIRST, it died.

In proper doese, the drug is not deadly - the side affects can be.

The only effective use of ivermectin was to use it last, as a final parasite
treatment, after all other drugs were used.

Pete was very successful at acclimating and treating melleri, which are
one of the most parasite ridden, difficult to acclimate species. He of
course hydrated them well and fed them well. First, he treated them
with "megadoses of panacur", over a period of several weeks. Every
treatment would cause a swelling in the throat, similar to a gular edema,
as the large worms in that region would die off. Treatment would
continue until the post-treatment swelling did not result.

After all fendbedazol (panacur) sensitive worms were killed off, he
woudl treat for protozoan parasites, or coccidia if necessary, then
tapeworms.

Only after everything else was killed off, and the animal recovering from
treatment, did he test for and treat for microfiliaria. If present in the
blood ( and they usually were), he'd treat with ivermectin.

On a related not, my local herp vet, when JUST starting out, used to
routienly treat all chameleons with panacur, flagyl, and ivermectin - all at
once. He had a remarkable low death rate. He dispute my claim that
ivermectin woudl kill animals due to the parasite load, as he never saw
it happen. When I informed him that all the calyptratus he was treating
were CB's, and probably devoid of most parasites, he understood.

The fact that it didnt' kill the calyptratus, which had few, if any
parasites, was interesting.

I think Pete had a good system. The animals have to be healthy, and
they have to have a VERY low parasite load, if they are to survive
ivermectn treatment.

Ivermectin kills turtles, though... be careful.

Sorry...I didn't have time to elaborate on my reply!

One fischers that I had years ago died when given fenbendazole...and I thought it was due to too many dead bodies for the lizard's system to deal with. After that I tried to figure out how the parasites could be killed off slowly and gave my WC's a resting/settling in period to help cut down on the load before they were treated for parasites...but I never did come up with the solution you mention. Wish I had!

The idea Pete had to chose a parasite medication that's selective (only kills off certain parasites leaving others to be treated later) is a great idea IMHO.

Makes sense what you said about the vet not realizing that the CB one wouldn't likely suffer from "parasite overload death" too.

You said..."Ivermectin kills turtles, though... be careful"...I keep trying to remember that in case one of my turtles/tortoises has to be treated someday.

"Ivermectin kills turtles, though... be careful"...I keep trying to remember that in case one of my turtles/tortoises has to be treated someday.

that came up from a lot of people on the bd forums and were adamant about it
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

It's due to turt's and tort's circulatory system and their nervous system. It is a physiological reason, due to their central nervous system/circulatory system...or so i have been told.

PEte didn't treat with fenbedazol the way it is typically reccomended. I've read to treat for several days in a row, or to treat every other day for a week.

Pete used to treat with large doses, but only every week or two weeks, to give the already stressed animal time to recover. He had good results - I saw almost every chameleon species ever imported into the US over at his place, all in great health (Pete got them in direct, when pardalis were under $50 each, and he'd treat them and acclimate them for at least 2 months, and sell them for $200 a piece - and he sold a lot of them!)

You said...It's due to turt's and tort's circulatory system and their nervous system. It is a physiological reason, due to their central nervous system/circulatory system...or so i have been told"...wish I knew more about it.

You said..."Pete used to treat with large doses, but only every week or two weeks, to give the already stressed animal time to recover"...the only way it was ever done with my lizards (including that fischer's) was once right away and once in two weeks. The fischer's never made it to the second dose.

I'm remembering one incedent when pete couldn't get any imports to survive reatment, andi t was Johsntonii. All but one out of 20 or so died after normal treatments. I believe he just used fenbendazol.

It was Lung worms. If they were in the chameloen's lung, and it died - so did the chameleon.

can drive a buggy girl buggy!!

Went to the vet today and although he says ivermectin would not be his first choice for pinworms he did not feel that there is a safety issue re: dose. After reading what you two have been posting it sounds that in extreme parasite loads it might be a problem but if given under different circumstances might be OK. Apparently it is preferred for mites and works well (as k has said). So b/t the 2 vets and forum opinions (cham and bd) and mt own research...whew!

I will be starting him on panacur tomorrow (we had a long day today so I figured I'd wait). I have the paste b/c I get it from my local feed store (thus, generally used for horses) so getting the solution correct took some time and now I have to make it.

Other than that he said he seemed fine in every other way. As for the lethargy he said it could be the parasite load, cold dreary NH days or he's just not feeling too perky, but said not to worry.

I was NOT able to bring a fecal b/c for the first time EVER Darwin did not poop today! A little "pee" (urates) but that was not going to help. So we decided just to treat him and told me when to bring a fecal in. He sends it out and says it is much more accurate (and expensive $34!). The other vet did it in house - not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but the more info to admin treatment the better.

Looks like I'll have to give up all his nice wood. That damn resin stuff is expensive! The cork bark and his favorite branch only hide crickets and the occasional super and I soak them out. Oh well, anything for my Darwin
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I have a book (available in paperback for cheap) called "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Dr. Klingenberg or something like that. (sorry-I'm at work). Excellent book which covers a wide variety of topics, including descriptions, dosages and different meds. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

he actually says very little on pinworms. I do know that had I just brought the fecal, and not Darwin, I'd have treated him with panacur right from the get-go.

He is still very gloomy. He has been hiding under his basking rock all day Didn't eat yesterday. Unfortunately, still too cold to take him outdoors.
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Hey, Lele. I found this interesting. Perhaps it will help.
Diane
Pinworms in reptiles

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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon