Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have owned this snake for 2 years. I purchased it from someone in Oregon who got it from the previous owner who got it from a PetCo in Palm Desert Calif. It was sold to me as a Garter Snake from Arizona but obviously it is not. It feeds on fish but I immediately started feeding it f/t mice and it is a hardy eater. It does not bite but it hisses and strikes with its mouth closed. I have a good idea what it is but wanted to see what other folks thought. I will post my thoughts after the thread runs a few days. It is not a Narrow-Headed Garter Snake T rufipunctatus.

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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

Why are you sure it is not T rufipunctatus? It certainly looks like to ones I have seen. Here is one I found last year.

It does superficially look like a Thamnophis rufipunctatus. There are some distinctive differences in pattern and other characteristics. After a lengthy search I was unable to find any examples of Narrow-Headed garters that matched it. I even tried to key it out with Thamnophis species in Latin America. It does not key out as any species of Thamnophis. I was able to come up with a probable ID but wanted to get other opinions before giving any preconceptions. I have seen quite a few T rufipunctatus. I encounter them on trips to Arizona every year. They are a favorite species of mine along with other Thamnophis, especially T elegans and T cytopsis. Where did you encounter yours? Here are a couple of pics of Arizona T rufipunctatus. The pics are a few years old and were scanned from slides and are rather poor quality.

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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

I found them in the Sedona area. Lots of Wandering Garters there too. I'm interested in finding out your thoughts on your snake.

Mike

The Sedona and Oak Creek area is also where I do some of my Arizona herping. I lived in Flagstaff for a few years during the 1980’s. I used to find Black-Necked Garters there but have not seen one in a very long time. The place has become a Disneyland of tourists. I believe my particular snake is a European Natrix, a Dice, Grass or Viperine Snake. I have posted another response in this same thread.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

Looks superficially like a European dice snake (Natrix tessellata) - the lack of biting fits, as does general appearance, pattern and head shape. However, one would need to start looking at scalation etc. to be sure, the photos don't show enough detail.

Cheers,

WW
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WW Home

I also believe that it is one of the European Natrix. Of the three species it most closely resembles the Dice but I am not sure. The pattern and behavior is very consistent with what I have read in the European field guide. The field guide lists small mammals as part of the diet of the Grass Snake and the Viperine Snake but not of the Dice Snake. My animal is a hardy feeder on f/t mice. With the limited illustrations in the field guide and the lack of pics found on the internet I am still unsure what I actually have. I will try to post more detailed pics Monday or Wednesday including a belly shot.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps

>>I also believe that it is one of the European Natrix. Of the three species it most closely resembles the Dice but I am not sure. The pattern and behavior is very consistent with what I have read in the European field guide. The field guide lists small mammals as part of the diet of the Grass Snake and the Viperine Snake but not of the Dice Snake. My animal is a hardy feeder on f/t mice. With the limited illustrations in the field guide and the lack of pics found on the internet I am still unsure what I actually have. I will try to post more detailed pics Monday or Wednesday including a belly shot.

If it is a European Natrix, then it is definitely N. tessellata (Dice snake). Natrix maura has a shorter head and usually a clearly distinct head pattern, and Natrix natrix also looks quite different.

The fact that it feeds on mice is the one thing that is surprising, N. tessellata and N. maura are normally pretty strictly amphibian and fish eaters. I am not familiar with Thamnophis rufipunctatus, so I canot comment. Some head close-ups and scale counts should help sort this out.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

I have to say my first inclination is that it looks like a Dice Snake, but when you add the statement about AZ, I will have to go with rufipunctatus as well. I've never thought about how similar they look before.

The probability of a European Natrix showing up at Petco is almost zero, while a rufi is low, but higher than a Natrix.
>>Randy Hallman
>>Firehouse Herps
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Narrow-Headed Garter has definitely been ruled out. The similarities end at the basic superficial appearance but the differences are definitive. There are only very minimal discrepancies in identifying it as a European Natrix. The discrepancies seem more about which of the three Natrix species it is rather than if it is one at all. It fits the description of a Dice Snake, Natrix tesselatta, completely but the diet is more like a Grass Snake, Natrix natrix, from what I have read. The two species are similiar and the behavior is consistent for both but uncharacteristic for Thamnophis.
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Randy Hallman
Firehouse Herps