Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am a new breeder. This is my first season and I have four clutches in the incubator. But next year is the question. I have a 906 gram female Albino. A 875 gram male Albino and a 900 gram male Spider. Who gets to breed her?

Breed the spider to the albino. . .raise a male for one year, then breed him back to the albino female.

good luck,
Ian Daviss

np
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Sign of the Serpent

Yea, But is there a market for Spider Het Albinos. What price would a Spider Albino bring in two years? Would you buy one?

Spider albinos are ****ing beautiful, and there will definitely be a market for them. Albino x albino will only get you albinos.... which are becomming rather common and ho hum. But a designer morph like spider albino... IMO thats hot stuff. I have a pastel that Im going to be breeding but as soon as I can sell off those pastel babies Im getting het albinos and then spiders. Spider and spider crosses are very popular
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Sign of the Serpent

But if you breed a Ablino to a Spider het for Albino you could get Spiders het for Albino,Albino, & Albino Spiders

Not sure whay the %s would be......

I think it would be Spider Het for Albino male bred to Albino female. Spider Het Albino- Spider Albino- Het Albino- Albino.

do those genders matter? the guy you replied to was correct, doesnt matter who is the albino and who is the spider het
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Sign of the Serpent

"do those genders matter? the guy you replied to was correct, doesnt matter who is the albino and who is the spider het"

Actually Claude is correct(there is the chance of simple het albinos popping out as well)
As far as which sex,etc...he was just repeating what the pairing was already stated as.
Sex is an indeterminate factor in genetic lineages(...unless there is never a Banana male.)
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

If they were mine i would be pairing that spider first then the albino second.(You will always wonder about it now anyways.lol)

Think about this now,what if you bred a pied male to her and then your albino male....Any normals would actually be double het!

gl
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

I dont think your previous statement is correct (provided I read correctly) if you bred a pied and an albino in to her for the offspring to be double het BOTH pied and albino sperm would have to fertilize that egg at the EXACT same time and even then it would be a gamble. for you to get a 1000000% definite double het you would have breed a pied m/f into a albino m/f then the offspring WILL be double hets

When reading my above statement you must keep in mind that the mother in this pairing is in fact an albino.

Therefore if she was paired with those two sires,any normal looking offspring would have to be the product of the pied sire(,and not the albino sire.Since the albino sires contributions would ALL be albinos).Albino X albino = ALL albino

So by default,any normal appearing phenotypes would have to have been sired by the pied(aka double het).

..this is all under the assumtion that the female is a virgin,and there is no chance of sperm retention from any previous pairings she may have have had.

This is a way to move forward with a dbl het project AND get a chance at producing simple albinos at the same.

Hope this helps.
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

I forgot that the female was albino also.

YOUR THE MAN Coldthumb

nah...i just researched it until i couldn't stand it anymore.

The triple recessive het projects that are on the way are going to be insane...let alone quad hets! lol
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

Just something to consider. If you check with the more experienced breeders I believe you will find that albino x albino has proven to be a problem. Infertile eggs, etc. Albino x het for albino is a better/stronger breeding. This doesn't mean that every albino x albino breeding results in disaster but it certainly has happened enough that it should be a consideration in your decision.

>>If you check with the more experienced breeders I believe you will find that albino x albino has proven to be a problem.

Have you spoken w/ "the more experienced breeders"? I was told by one very large breeder that this isn't an issue at all...that they've NEVER had an issue here.

There was also a thread several months ago where nobody had experience of albino x albino causing probs...only hearsay.

I personally have no experience breeding a x a.

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Jeremy Conrad
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...Can't...stop...must...get...more...balls...

Thanks everyone for your input. The responce was apprecated. It looks like the Spider is option #1. What do you think of Piebald female to ether Het pied male or Lemon Pastel male?

LEMON! But i already told you this lol! =)
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Thanks
Jon Dvoretz
Next World Exotics
www.nextworldexotics.com

The Hunters Guide to the Morphs
www.nextworldexotics.com/hg.htm

Pied pastels = RAWK
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Sign of the Serpent

I have asked two breeders that I've known for a few years and have helped me in the past. They both breed albino to het. However, I have not bred albino to albino nor have they. For a good reason, it's a pretty expensive test in terms of money and time. They have great success breeding albinot to het, it's not broken so why fix it. There is a great deal of rumor about this which is why I suggested he check with experienced breeders. Somebody that has actually done it, more than once, and can say definitively that there is some truth to the rumor or that it is BS.

so basically your original "warning" post was based on hearsay and bs and was presented like it was a fact.

no offense but neither of the 2 breeders you talked to have any experience breeding alb to alb so their opinion is mute

The original post was asking for advice, recommendation, etc. What would be better: albino x albino or albino x spider. So I made a suggestion to check into this. There's no harm in doing as much research as possible before making a decision.

adding what I had heard (which is again hearsay on MY part) from breeders who have done alb x alb.

So far as "expensive" tests...I think it would pay off more in the long run, b/c a x a = all albinos compared to 1/2 albinos
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Jeremy Conrad
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...Can't...stop...must...get...more...balls...

From a genetics standpoint it doesn't make any difference if an albino baby ball gets both of it's albino genes from het parents, both from homozygous parents, or from a mixed set of het and homozygous parents. Regardless, if it has two albino genes (one from each parent) it's an albino and that is the only way to make an albino albinos. That is to say, as far as the albino gene is concerned all albinos are equal – they all have the exact same genetic mackup with regards to the albino gene regardless of which set of potential albino producing parents they have.

If we are talking about a problem with genes other than the albino gene such as some sort of negative inbreeding accumulation of problematic genes then it could also happen inbreeding hets which might not be any more likely to be unrelated than albinos from different breeders at this point (i.e. now that there are lots of captive bred albinos from several different wild caught sources).

So, the only way I can think that it could possibly make any difference is if the female albinos don't produce healthy eggs compared to hets because of the albino mutation. If this where the case it wouldn't matter what you bred the albino females too (i.e. spider, axanthic, etc.) the egg factory would be the same. Do people report having trouble with albino females in other projects?

I suspect it's mainly that adult het albino females are more common than adult albino females and that many of the available adult albino females are being used to make 100% het albinos for combination projects.

Yah, Im going to have to say thats a bunch of brown smelly stuff. I have heard this, but it has always been said by someone who you would expect to say it... such as someone who has never bred albino x albino. I think your comment was out of line and just down right incorrect. If you can get on the phone right now and call 5 of the biggest breeders and ask what they have to say, and 2 or more of them also agree, I will eat my words... but I dont think its true at all... atleast I have never heard anyone who breeds albino to albino say its true.

>>I think your comment was out of line and just down right incorrect.

Out of line? I wouldn't go anywhere that far...he said...

"Just something to consider. If you check with the more experienced breeders I believe you will find that albino x albino has proven to be a problem. Infertile eggs, etc."

What's "out of line" to say "I believe"? Let's play nice, kids!
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Jeremy Conrad
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...Can't...stop...must...get...more...balls...

I would probaby breed Albino x Albino, unless you really like the Albino Spider. I, personally do not care for the Albino spider at all. Now, granted, I have not seen one in person, but I think the Hypo Spider is amazing, but the Albino Spider too me is not all that exciting.

Dave