Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Now I know I may be openning myself up for a lot of flak but I would like some references regarding mixing species of tortoises. I read it on this site and others never to mix species but I can not find information giving specifics as to the expected problems. I have a cat and dog in my house so thats mixing species. I have 2 fish tanks and they certainly mix species. I look outside and the birds seem to have no problems with mixing species. In fact if I handle my tortoises then technically I am mixing species. I know that agression can be a problem, thats true even within the same speices, and in those cases seperation is necessary. But if two types of torts have the same habitat requirements why not. Not trying to provoke an argument but would like to get some scientific evidence for or against.

Tom

I've got 3 Hermanns, 2 Russians, & one Egyptian & they've all been kept together at one time or another. Now the Hermanns & Egyptian live together in a large outdoor pen & I recently moved a Russian yearling in with a 5 year old male Russian in a separate pen. The only reason I moved the male Russian to a pen by himself is because he's so aggressive & was fighting with the 6 year old male Hermanns & trying to mount everything else in the pen. Come fall, the Egyptian will get moved indoors while the others wind down before being put in the refrigerator for hibernation.

They are all captive born & raised so I wasn't worried about any sort of cross infection & they've all been vet checked over the years & are clean & healthy.

If I ever get ahold of a female Egyptian, I'll build a separate pen for them but until then, my 4 year old male will continue to live with the Hermanns.

Actually it's not a problem for most normal people. I don't think that there is anything wrong with keeping different tortoises with similar requirements together.

The different risks go up with different factors. WC tortoises have the greatest risks because they might harbor different diseases that other tortoises might not be as resistant to. That's the biggest one. Specific personalities can also be a problem.

>>Now I know I may be openning myself up for a lot of flak but I would like some references regarding mixing species of tortoises. I read it on this site and others never to mix species but I can not find information giving specifics as to the expected problems. I have a cat and dog in my house so thats mixing species. I have 2 fish tanks and they certainly mix species. I look outside and the birds seem to have no problems with mixing species. In fact if I handle my tortoises then technically I am mixing species. I know that agression can be a problem, thats true even within the same speices, and in those cases seperation is necessary. But if two types of torts have the same habitat requirements why not. Not trying to provoke an argument but would like to get some scientific evidence for or against.
>>
>>Tom
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Here's a link to an article on the Tortoise Trust website that explains why it's not advisable to mix species:

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html#separate

Nina

Thanks for the link. Items 1 and 3 I already addressed. Its the middle one that I am trying to find info on. Parasites obviously would be passed along but if stools are negative then that is less a concern. As soon as you put the torts outside and they get to eat from nature they will pick up some type of parasites. In tropical countries 50% of humans are walking around with some type of parasite in their intestine. I think as someone else mentioned in a post healthy animals can tolerate some parasite burden but under stress, dehydration, old age, or other illness then that parasite load may become a problem. I read in one post about herpes virus being carried by some torts but again, just word of mouth. Tom

The first 3 abstracts listed below discuss herpes virus in russians.

russiantortoise.org/abstracts.htm

Hey, if you want to mix species, go ahead.

Just be prepared to separate them into new enclosures if it doesn't work out.

Of course, anyone who disagrees with me is a "fanatic" who is not "normal"!

Right, Ed?

Both are very relative terms but does get the point across.

>>The first 3 abstracts listed below discuss herpes virus in russians.
>>
>>russiantortoise.org/abstracts.htm
>>
>>
>>Hey, if you want to mix species, go ahead.
>>
>>Just be prepared to separate them into new enclosures if it doesn't work out.
>>
>>Of course, anyone who disagrees with me is a "fanatic" who is not "normal"!
>>
>>Right, Ed?
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

EJ said:

"Both are very relative terms but does get the point across."

And the point is that you have contempt for those who disagree with you? Or at least that's what I get from it.

Or maybe it's to get even with people who have insulted you?

I don't mean to give you a hard time, but whenever someone adds an insult to try and make a point, the message gets lost on me. I begin to think that the person might not know what they are talking about and that they must resort to name-calling to cover up.

Since you do know what you are talking about, the insults are not necessary.

Convince me with facts, not insults.

You lunkhead :->

I can take this as an insult or I can take this point to heart.

Sorry, extremist get to me and I (like many folks) like to get my jabs in. Is it petty... yes, is it necessary... no, but I'm only human... unless you talk to my wife.

Point registered and acknowledged.

>>EJ said:
>>
>>"Both are very relative terms but does get the point across."
>>
>>And the point is that you have contempt for those who disagree with you? Or at least that's what I get from it.
>>
>>Or maybe it's to get even with people who have insulted you?
>>
>>I don't mean to give you a hard time, but whenever someone adds an insult to try and make a point, the message gets lost on me. I begin to think that the person might not know what they are talking about and that they must resort to name-calling to cover up.
>>
>>Since you do know what you are talking about, the insults are not necessary.
>>
>>Convince me with facts, not insults.
>>
>>You lunkhead :->
>>
>>
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I would think that would be a more fanatical point of view.

Most of the issues can be addressed by purchasing CB animals.

>>Here's a link to an article on the Tortoise Trust website that explains why it's not advisable to mix species:
>>
>>http://www.tortoisetrust.org/care/faq.html#separate
>>
>>Nina
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Would you really call that article 'fanatical'? It made three points that seemed to me completely reasonable: 1) different species might have different environmental needs; 2) different species might be carrying different pathogens that could be harmful to another species; and 3) different species can exhibit different behaviors (esp. in breeding) that could be stressful/harmful for another species. And its conclusion said: "Do try and avoid housing different species together . . " Surely if this came from a fanatic it would say "You must never, under any circumstances, house species together."
This seemed to me to be the voice of caution and reason, with no trace of fanaticism.

Nina

I really need to re-read the article. He's obviously tempered the language and you have my appologies. If it is written as you say I wouldn't call that fanatical at all. I would call that vrey reasonable.

>>Would you really call that article 'fanatical'? It made three points that seemed to me completely reasonable: 1) different species might have different environmental needs; 2) different species might be carrying different pathogens that could be harmful to another species; and 3) different species can exhibit different behaviors (esp. in breeding) that could be stressful/harmful for another species. And its conclusion said: "Do try and avoid housing different species together . . " Surely if this came from a fanatic it would say "You must never, under any circumstances, house species together."
>>This seemed to me to be the voice of caution and reason, with no trace of fanaticism.
>>
>>Nina
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Thanks, Ed. I'd be interested to hear what you think after looking at it. It's number 9 in the FAQs (I think I've put the link at the end of this message).

Nina
Link to TT article

Sorry to reply this way Ed, but I just responded to your private email and got a delivery failure notice twice. I just pushed reply so I couldn't have got your address wrong. Not sure why this happened. It's late here now, so I'll try again tomorrow.

Nina

My new email is epirog@comcast.net

my old addy might be attached to the link I used.

Sorry.

>>Sorry to reply this way Ed, but I just responded to your private email and got a delivery failure notice twice. I just pushed reply so I couldn't have got your address wrong. Not sure why this happened. It's late here now, so I'll try again tomorrow.
>>
>>Nina
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Thanks. The new link worked and message has been re-sent.

Nina