Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey there,

Im keeping a whole bunch of western hognose, but Im very interested in the southern, only problem is, that getting frogs, is close to impossible in Denmark

Anybody got experience in keeping them on mice?? Are they as dificult as the eastern, on rodents??
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Thanks and best regards

Mark

My understanding is that they are closer to westerns than easterns as far as the feedings go. Easier to get on mice than the easterns.
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Jenea

1:1 Tricolor Hognose
0:0:2 Florida Redbelly Snakes
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
0:0:1 Green Tree Frog
1:2:2 Mediterranean Geckos
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

I have kept a few wild caught simus in the past. I have never had any trouble getting them onto mice. Some of them took f/t mice without even needing toad scenting.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Hi,
Thanks for youre reply. But can they live on mice?? Ive heard that mice is to fat a diet, and that they could die from "fat"liver??
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Thanks and best regards

Mark

This story about fatty liver disease in snakes fed mice is very widely spread. The problem is there really isn't any evidence to support it. There are Eastern Hogs that have lived for decades on a mouse diet.

Furthermore, I suspect simus eat quite a few rodents in the wild.

Search this forum for fatty liver disease or fatty liver and you will probably find a few discussions of this "problem".
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

You've "heard" the myth too I see. Ask those who tell you this where they got the information. I've been probing people on this forum for years now and no one has produced a single shred of evidence. Feel confident that you can indeed for your hognose mice.
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

I've heard this myth too, but it was in a little paperback book titled "Snakes". I want to say it's by Dick Bartlett, but I can't rightly remember and I don't have a copy of the book in front of me. The book did not outright state that a rodent diet was detrimental to the health of Southerns & Easterns. When I find the book I'll be sure to find out exactly what was stated.

reako45

I would be forever in debt to you if you did indeed find a reference for this myth. I would then contact Bartlett and see if HE can provide a source! THanks!
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

Now I don't know the ins and out's of hognose care but it seems that a rodent diet, while controllable, may lead a little easier to obesity then the more lean amphibian diet.
Obviously this can be limited by feeding mostly lean, healthy mice, and not old retired jumbo breeders. Avoiding obesity can also be done with size of prey and frequency of feedings. I'm sure you can also get an obese hognose on an amphibian diet.

So, the connection I offer is not one of diet, but that of obesity. Fatty liver IS connected to obesity, without question. Not all animals that are obese will die of fatty liver disease, nor are all fld cases originally obese, BUT, obese snakes are at a much higher risk of developing fatty liver disease, either as a primary illness, or secondary to something else.

This info might lead someone to make the loose connection of;
mice-->obesity-->fatty liver.... where soon obesity drops from whatelse... laziness

mice -->fatty liver.

I hope this sheds some light from my point of view

Ian

Ian, you hit the nail on the head. It's what I've been preaching here! Captive herps usually get overfed all the time, and hognoses seem to be especially susceptible. I might call upon your expertise for the next rodent diet debate!
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine