Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a question. I just bought two female flapneck chameleons. I have done some research on them and they are for sure both females because they don't have spurs on their back feet. I have a feeling that one of them is gravid. When we bought them, they were in a cage with other species of chameleons.......and they did not have any male flapnecks. Can two different species mate? I am not sure if they had any male flapnecks before I bought the females or not. The reason I am asking is I am debating whether or not I should buy an incubator. I read that they can lay eggs that aren't fertilized.....I know incubators are expensive and I really don't want to spend the money unless there is a great chance that they are fertal. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Different species of chameleons can not interbreed, typically.

If your female flapneck is gravid, it is possible that she has infertile eggs, but it is also possible that she was bred by a male flapneck prior to her being in the petstore where you purchased her. I'm assuming these animals are WC. I'm not positive of the gestation period for flapnecks, but I know that in most other chameleons it is fairly long...

Good luck,
Jamie

Almost all flapnecks are wc, so chances are she was gravid when she was caught. This means there is a chance the eggs are fertile, but a lot has to happen before you would end up with eggs to care for. She has to get over all the capture and shipping stress, get on a good diet, deal with any health problems she may have going on,lay them successfully, etc. Most cham eggs don't need a full incubator setup to be developed. The incubation temps are not that high and many breeders simply put them in vermiculite in a plastic container in a stable room temp closet. I have NOT incubated flapnecks, so I don't know their temp/humidity requirements.

Also, if you are keeping these 2 together now, you must separate them even if they are both female. Your gravid cham will stress very easily with any other animals around. Check out the reference pages at the top of the forum for good links to read about egg development and incubation.

One more word of advice...put an egglaying container in her cage now so that you won't miss when she is ready to lay. It doesn't have to be huge (just big enough when its empty that she fits into it with a couple of inches to spare on all sides)...fill it about 2/3 full of washed sandbox sand. Its just something that she can dig in to show you she is ready to lay them. You can move her to a bigger container when she starts to dig. One of the leading causes of eggbinding in chameleons is not having an egglaying area in the cage.

Good luck with her!

I came home from work today and she had started digging! So I put an egglaying area out for her. It should be perfect. But now she isn't doing anything....and I am possitive she hasn't layed her eggs yet. She is just sitting on the plant. I also put a blanket around her cage for privacy..but that doesn't seem to be doing anything.....do they usually dig for quite a while before they actually lay the eggs?

I have no experience with flaps laying eggs....but I have with a c. chamaeleons and quite a few other species of chameleon...and many of them dig more than one hole or dig the same hole for more than one day. They usually go back up into the branches inbetween. I'm glad you are giving her privacy....letting her see you while she is digging could make her abandon the hole feeling that its not a safe place to lay the eggs.

I hope that you have good luck with them! Flaps are not the easiest chameleon to keep or breed in captivity!

In the first post in this thread you said that they were both females for sure because they had no spurs....not necessarily....there are several different flap-necked chameleons and some of the males don't have spurs. You need to look at the base of the tail to be sure.

Here's the link telling you about the different flaps...
http://adcham.com/html/taxonomy/species/chdilepis.html

thank you very much. I really appreciate it. It doesn't seem like she has dug at all last night either. unfortunately I don't have an extra cage to separate the two chameleons........I am going to try to find a temporary one, but don't really have the money to spend a whole lot. That incubator killed me! I know that you don't have to have an incubator, but I think I would have better luck if I did have one. Thank you so much for your help and advice. i really appreciate it. Keep in touch if you want. I will update you one them! lol

You're welcome for the information!

You said.."It doesn't seem like she has dug at all last night either"...hopefully she will go back to digging today.

I don't know how large your cage is, but could you divide the one you have with something like cardboard (as long as it doesn't make the halves too small)?

You said..."Keep in touch if you want. I will update you one them! lol"....I'd like to hear how it all goes. Hope I remember to check back with you!

I read the info you gave me but didn't see anything about the base of the tail. How do you tell if it is a male? I will go back and re-read it again. I must have missed something.

This site is not showing the tails of flaps but of cephs, but it illustrates the difference in the male and female tail base. With some species there is more of a difference between the sexes' tail bases than others...but I hope you will still be able to tell. Look at the first inch or so of the tail next to the body...the male's tail is thicker for a longer distance because the hemipenes are stored in the base of the tail. The female's tail gets thinner quicker. Hope this helps!

http://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/glossary/hemipenal.html

These are flaps...definite males...
http://www.warrenphotographic.co.uk/mdh/05105.htm
http://www.calacademy.org/research/...ogs/pred11.html

(Forgot I has posted these on another forum.)

thanks for the websites...I definately see what you mean about the tail. I have no idea if she dug today at all. i saw some dirt on her feet, but the dirt doesn't seem disturbed. You can definately see the eggs in her though!! I got the incubator today so I am feeling a little more ready. Plus I have a three day weekend coming up so I can regularily spy on her. The cage isn't real big. I'll try to split it in two. She has started looking dehydrated. I am making sure to mist them and they have a dripper. I think it is just because she is so close. Also, I read on one site that if they get yellow spots that means that they are either sexually active? or wanting to mate or whatever......excited, or gravid. My other chameleon has yellow spots so I am starting to wonder if she is gravid too. I will have to look at her tail still. I must say, I didn't see myself getting into chameleons this fast! I can't believe I have only had them 4 days and have already had to get an incubator! I don't regret it one bit though. Thanks for all your help.

One thing I don't think I mentioned....don't let her see you watching her when she is digging. She might abandon the hole thinking that its not a safe place to lay the eggs. If she does this often enough, she could become eggbound.

Also can't remember if I mentioned that they will/might dig more than one hole or even dig the same hole more than once.

You said..."I definately see what you mean about the tail"...its easier to see the difference when you have a male and female to compare.

You said..."She has started looking dehydrated. I am making sure to mist them and they have a dripper. I think it is just because she is so close."...can't be sure with flaps, but with any types of chameleons I've kept they usually drink MORE when they are close.

You said..."My other chameleon has yellow spots so I am starting to wonder if she is gravid too"...quite possible. This site shows gravid coloration in the middle picture. Usually gravid coloration is different than receptive. When no male is in sight, the color of a gravid female can be different than when she can see the male too.

You said..."I must say, I didn't see myself getting into chameleons this fast! I can't believe I have only had them 4 days and have already had to get an incubator! I don't regret it one bit though"...you definitely have your work cut out for you!

You said..."Thanks for all your help" you're welcome. I just wish I had more experience with flaps so I could be of more help.

Thanks so much! I know this are CB...not wild caught...but I have been keeping the two females together....so I will separate them..