Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I try to stay away from this subject as its as unstable as any subject concerning varanids.

Most people acquire a monitor, then set about taming it. The problem is many fold, first they do not know or apply proper husbandry. This is first and foremost. You must establish a stable application of husbandry. You must accomplish that before any attempt to "tame" a monitor.

So in order to understand what husbandry is, those folks do their homework, they normally ask another beginer here or on some other forum. Really not how homework is done.

In order to apply good husbandry, you ask, you listen, then you apply what you think you understood. The answer is always with your monitor, not what you were told. Your monitor must achieve normal behaviors and habits. That is, feed like a pig(a varanid trait) grow like a weed(another varanid trait) and have a distint and individual mind of its own. These things must continue for some time to be called a stable application of normal husbandry.

After you have achieved stable conditions and results, then and only then must you start to think about altering your monitors behavior.

To alter their behavior may be considered taming. But much like learning about husbandry, you should really do your homework and learn about taming animals. After all, TAMING animals is an art. It takes practice, patience and education. Then it takes experience. Not everyone is good at taming any kind of animal. The main reason is, it takes loads of patience.(something commonly lacking with newbies)

You really should start at the bottom and work your way through. You should not start to tame by grabbing and holding and petting. You should start by reading and learning and talking to many people who have successfully done this, with all sorts of wild animals(varanids are wild animals). Of course this should occur after you have learned to keep your monitor healthy for some period of time. You know, months, years, etc, not seconds, minutes, hours.

When talking to other people, stay away from people who tell you how to tame a monitor, but their monitor is gone after a short period. Or those who just got a monitor. Cheers

We've had Rico for a year and a half now. I never set out to "tame" or "train" him in any way~

But I did

I see everyone here talking about building a "food bond"~ could be you want to be carefull about that.

I accidently trained him to act like a lunatic with me! The rotten beast (said affectionatly) has figured out that I am the food source. Food only comes from me (because if I didn't feed him no one else would)~ so~ whenever he see's me looking like I may open his cage he acts like a lunatic braining himself on the glass of his enclosure until I feel guilty enough to get him something more to eat. This has been mostly just funny~ until recently..........

Now when I open the cage for any reason (cleaning, misting, water or food) the rotten beast LEAPS out of the cage at me (or into the glass, braining himself again if I close the door fast enough)snapping at anything and everything (hasn't actually bitten me yet~ but he's been close!).

Gonna have to figure out a way to train him to be a little LESS obsessed with me.

I can't even show him to guests anymore. They think he is vicious if he see's me. He's a perfectly reasonable display animal looking all handsome~ until he gets the idea that I may actually touch his cage~ then he is a lunatic braining himself on the glass repeatedly.
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

Then he fully trained you. hahahahahahahaha

Try this,

I trained this group of nasty old lacies to eat out of my hands, but using a gloved head, and holding the mice enclosed in my hand, and not letting them have the mice until they used only their claws. Pretty soon, these monitors understood to not bite the hand that fed them, and they became very tame. As I fed them with one hand, I slowly touched them with the other. I also forced them to walk over one hand to get to the hand the mice were in. I would then gently lift them up while they were feeding.

You see, you only clued your monitor into your hand, to get food, you did not teach him your hand was not food. The problem with training is, each step as a step before it, and after it.

You don't just grab a monitor and say, hey look at me I taming it. hahahahahahahahaha

On the otherhand, monitors are normally very tame. I really do not see them as all nasty and such, and that includes Croc monitors. Just treating them with respect is enough to tame most of them.

Also, its only common sense that you do not start or ever feed with a bare hand. THese monitors have razors for teeth. Common sense and patience is important with all things.

By the way, its also common sense to start with small monitors to learn your techniques. Cheers

might as well share some amusing experience.

my blackthroat used to act the same way during feeding time. only its trigger was a very brightly colored orange glove(this thing was practically glow in teh dark).

no glove...pretty calm

orange glove...lunatic

Same thing with my ackies, except their trigger is the sound of me shaking crickets in supplements inside a yellow cup. they actually come out of their burrows at teh sound and flock to the yellow cup. that is actually pretty cool to show guests.

I was under the impression that such a substrate as wood shavings offers very little or no value/benefit to the physiology of the captives, and that deep, burrowable natural substrates such as leaf detritus and dirt were of greater value and importance to captive varanids.

Has anybody on this forum found wood shavings to work equally as well or offer the same benefits that natural substrates do? The reason why I ask, is that it seems as though some keepers who come to this forum are scolded for using such a substrate, meanwhile it appears to be acceptable for others to use.

Should wood shavings be used or ditched? What are your thoughts?

Why can't you refrain from my posts, all they lead to is arguements.

Again, I will have to attack you with common sense. First, I am the only person, zoo, etc, in the new world to have produced Lacies, going on four generations. So what I do must be OK, compared to what others do. That is simple logic.

Next, I imagine you have lots of problems because you get all suck up in a mind set. If you learn to think and make decisions, then you do not have to depend on a caresheet or the written word. I have always said, "its all about the ability to make decisions". The decisions here is, when to use what, and when to change to what. Its really not that hard of a decision.

I will bring up, making decisions is based on observations. In this case, if you were observant, you would see that these are young subadult animals. I wonder if there is a need to keep subadults like breeding adults? hmmmmmmmm oh another decision to be made.

Also, I have to wonder what shavings are made of, and then I wonder what leaflitter is made of? I do wonder these things. I imagine, leaflitter and wood shavings are all part of a tree.

I think I reported that I had a lacie make her own sawdust/wood shavings. She peeled the inside of a log and then covered her eggs with the sawdust she made. How wonderful is that? And how does that relate to this? got me. I am not sure I care. I guess if the nesting female thinks its OK to cover her eggs with sawdust, it must be ok to raise some of her babies on sawdust.

The real point is, why do you ask? As I take this in a circle, It must work, as I hatched their parents, and their parents and their parents.

I also never mentioned always giving them the best or ideal, whatever that is, I always mention, use something that works, as opposed to something that doesn't. As a substrate to raise up some lacies, sawdust is OK. Yes????????

That you get stuck thinking like you do, is not my hinderence. I have no problems making decisions, and using what is needed at the time. I can change substrate, use all sorts of stuff, try this, try that, no problems, the reason is, Its not so much about a particular substrate as it is about the animals, and they are fine.

I do forgive you, as you hatch so few monitors, you may not have the experience to understand, that hatchlings require one thing, raiseups another, and adults another all together. Its all about what is needed at the time. I hope I make the right decision when its needed. Cheers

I have never used the Monitor forum before although I do use others here. I keep other reptiles and am currently researching Monitors as I am preparing for one myself.
I read this post, it being the first one on the forum at the time and would like to applaud you.
Everything you say is correct, if a bit cryptic.
I would like to say thank you, as I have experienced duff information from beginners pretending to be experts on forums and I too believe that learning and experience lead to one being able to make thier own decision for a situation at a moment in time.

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AndyD

0.0.1 Mexican Kingsnake
0.3.0 Bearded Dragons
1.0.0 Egyptian Uromastyx

I know he is pretty smart~ but he is a quick study apparently. I started the hand feeding as you suggested (with a glove) the other day~ and I saw a difference in his behaviour the second day. Already he is much calmer about approaching me and checking for food rather than jumping at me with gaping maw.

Then again~ I also increased the amount of food he was getting each morning~ that may have made the difference too. Before he was getting one to two P/K fuzzy rats a day with an occasionaly boiled egg for a snack~ now he is getting a boiled egg every morning with the glove (thats our "training time"~ I cut the egg in half shell and all~ he gets the egg halves from the glove and I touch/pet him with my other hand while he eats it)~ and a fuzzy rat later in the day. Perhaps I was accidently underfeeding him? Or am I now overfeeding him?
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

Monitors learn very very very quickly. Not to be offensive, but much faster then humans.

In 90% or more, of overly agressive feeders, its underfeeding. Monitors need fuel. They eat like pigs.

Most people who say things about overfeeding monitors, causing them to get fat, are in fact under metabolizing them. That is, they do not give them the heat to run a normal speed, therefore converting energy into stored fat. Another reason for "heatum and feedum". In order to act normal, they must be normal.

Back to the hand feeding, Yes they learn fast and become very patient. After you have done the, in the cage hand feeding, for awhile, you can lead him around the room and feed in certain places and only in these places. Its really interesting to see the behaviors they display. Keep it up, cheers