Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all,

First, congrats to Paul on the nice clutch. That must be one of the first of the season. It got me thinking that I'd like to keep a tally of a few stats in order to start up a friendly competition between a few like-minded folks. If you want to play, then each time you have a clutch of Brazilians send me the following info:

1) Number of babies
2) Age of female
3) Mass of babies

I could put up a little congratulatory post at the end of 2006 to aknowlege the winner of each category. If you can think of any other categories, let me know and I'll add them to the list. Let's start with any clutches that have been born in 2006. I suppose you could either post your stats here or e-mail them to me at

mike@tooscaley.com

Thanks and good luck,
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Hey Mike, I'm game. Got 7 on the barbie now, one does not look gravid though.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
1.0 BCI Salmon
0.1 BCI Ghost
0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
0.1 BCI Super Ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

How about Argentine Rainbows too. That's assuming my girl is gravid. I know Jeff already has me beat on this one so far...heh.

John Bortel

OK, why not. Just send me your stats for any clutch of rainbows Argentinian, Columbian, Peruvian whatever. I'll keep track for 2006 and post the "winners" in January. I know there's been a few clutches this year so far so let me hear from you.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike,
....This seems like an interesting project. The litter of Argentinian Rainbows born sunday before last had 5 full size babies that now weigh 32 grams each and the two twins which now weigh 10 grams each. None of these have eaten or shed yet and I would guess they have have probably lost around 15% of their birth weight. There was also one very large perhaps 50 gram slug. I want to stake my claim now for the 2006 prizes for smallest litters on average and also for the most slugs.
Jeff

>>OK, why not. Just send me your stats for any clutch of rainbows Argentinian, Columbian, Peruvian whatever. I'll keep track for 2006 and post the "winners" in January. I know there's been a few clutches this year so far so let me hear from you.
>>-----
>>Mike Lockwood
>>www.tooscaley.com

With the twins, you should have a great advantage for smallest viable baby as well.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
1.0 BCI Salmon
0.1 BCI Ghost
0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
0.1 BCI Super Ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

O.K. the first stats are in and there are two new categories (two new chances to win). "Most slugs" and "smallest clutch". So, if you want to play, here's what I need:

Date of Birth
Number of babies
Number of slugs
Mass of babies (before first meal)
Age of female

Keep 'em coming!
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Ok, now we're talking! I've been wanting to get a scale for a while now. I'll get some weights before they feed. I was looking at these little guys last night and was thinking 'man they are small'. What is the average weight that neonate BRB's come in at? I'm thinking these guys are at the small end of the scale.
This pair started mating in late October after a cold front came through Sacramento and kept at it through mid November.
It would be really interesting to note the longest and shortest gestation but that would be hard to really pin down.
Good stuff.
Paul

I'm sure you're going to have some nice red babies there. Did any of them pick up the pronounced circles along the sides like the male? He's really nice looking.

Last year, I had a clutch of babies born that all weighed in at the high 20 to low 30 gram range. The second clutch of 2005 gave me animals in the high 30 to low 40 gram range. This seemed like a big difference to me so I thought it might be neat to note what other breeders are getting.

As for longest and shortest gestation, I bet we could start to pinpoint ovulation and start counting from there. I've noticed extreme swelling along the lower 1/3 of my females that tends to subside after a matter of days. I'm assuming this is ovulation. At about that same time, my females tend to seek out cooler areas of the cage. Many times they will go right to the water dish. This is often where copulation occurs. They usually stay on the cool end for a matter of weeks and then go seek out a nice, warm basking area and stay there for months.

If we could start being really observant, I'm sure we could start to put some numbers on this and better predict the lay date.

Again, congratulations on the clutch. Let me know when you have your stats.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike,
Here are the final numbers after the recent finds:

Date of Birth: May 23, 2006
Number of babies: 13
Number of slugs: 5 (not knowing if mom ate some)
Mass of babies: 410 g (if I'm understanding this right; total weight?), Average 31.5 g, largest 32.6 (5), smallest 29.8 (2).
Age of female: 7 yrs.

Thanks,
Paul

A pick of Kali (renamed by my wife from Kane), one I kept from her first litter.

Paul,
...Congratulations. I think that is what many would call a "typical" litter. We have some bigger ones and we have some smaller ones. I seem to have lots of smaller litters. If I could have all of them that are gravid lay a litter exactly that size I would be a happy camper.
Jeff

>>Mike,
>>Here are the final numbers after the recent finds:
>>
>>
>>Date of Birth: May 23, 2006
>>Number of babies: 13
>>Number of slugs: 5 (not knowing if mom ate some)
>>Mass of babies: 410 g (if I'm understanding this right; total weight?), Average 31.5 g, largest 32.6 (5), smallest 29.8 (2).
>>Age of female: 7 yrs.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Paul
>>
>>A pick of Kali (renamed by my wife from Kane), one I kept from her first litter.
>>

I just ran some numbers on my litters,

All litters including slug outs:
Average total qty of eggs/litter = 24.43 (babies/stills/slugs)
Average live healthy babies/litter = 12.87

Counting only those litters with viable babies:
Average total qty of eggs/litter = 24.47
Average live healthy babies/litter = 17.41
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
1.0 BCI Salmon
0.1 BCI Ghost
0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
0.1 BCI Super Ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave,
...Interesting numbers. After your great numbers last year I was surprised to see that you have had slug problems like mine in other years. I wonder what we BRB breeders are doing wrong that we get so many slugs? The serious Boa Constrictor breeders produce some slugs but nowhere as many as we do. I did well breeding Cornsnakes and later Jungle Carpet Pythons with few infertile eggs and very high hatch percentages. These BRBs can make a guy humble.
Jeff

>>I just ran some numbers on my litters,
>>
>>All litters including slug outs:
>>Average total qty of eggs/litter = 24.43 (babies/stills/slugs)
>>Average live healthy babies/litter = 12.87
>>
>>Counting only those litters with viable babies:
>>Average total qty of eggs/litter = 24.47
>>Average live healthy babies/litter = 17.41
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC)
>>0.2 kids (CBB)
>>2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
>>2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
>>4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
>>2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
>>0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
>>0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
>>1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
>>0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
>>1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
>>1.0 BCI Salmon
>>0.1 BCI Ghost
>>0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
>>1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
>>0.1 BCI Super Ghost
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Honestly, I feel I've gotten better at caring for them. I really would like to think that I am learning and it's being reflected in my results....probably just dreaming though.

I have a few factors to consider:

All my results are based on 7 females, not a huge statistical number.

Female 1 - 67 babies in 4 litters, 20 total slugs/stills (S/S).

Female 2 - went through three bad litters, 67 total non viables and no S/S. Was up for sale and didn't sell, the next two years '04 and '05 produced 57 babies and 5 slugs, how's that for a turnaround?

Female 3 - started off good in 2000 with 21 live and 4 S/S. 2001 had 24 slugs, nothing in 2002. 2003 - 14 live,11 S/S. 2004 - 10 live, 18 S/S. 2005 sucked again - 26 S/S. Definately not a great breeder.

Female 4 - consistantly throws a lot of slugs 88 in 5 litters with only 40 live in three litters (21 last year)

Females 5 and 6 - the first litters were at 3 years old in 2004, both small (10 and 11 babies) with only one slug, in 2005 they produced 20 and 28 with one slug each.

Number 7 is my rescue Savannah, only one breeding year on her (so far) and she did great at 18 live and no S/S

Bottom line is statistically I've been doing better and better each year. I've also at the same time been adding better breeders, the latest three breeder females have produced 5 litters with 87 babies and only 3 Slugs!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
1.0 BCI Salmon
0.1 BCI Ghost
0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
0.1 BCI Super Ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I'm surprised to see Dave's numbers too. I have not been doing this breeding thing anywhere near the length of time Jeff and Dave have been at it nor do I have multiple breeders.

2003: 23 babies, 1 slug, no stillborn, one badly kinked spine (euthanized) from WW female

2004: 18 babies, no slugs, no stillborn from same female and male

2005: 14 babies, no slugs, no stillborn, 3 with kinked tail(only one was visible...has the funky elongated dorsal rings), from different female bred to same male.

I observed the last two litters being born. Isn't it possible that other boas eat their slugs upon arrival or that human representation has a hand in the totals? Or that if one pays 10K or more for a snake it doesn't produce as many slugs? (I would hope if my snake cost that much...it would be a producer of viable babies and nothing else. Hehehehehe.

Mike, didn't mean to leave you out....you haven't posted yet.

Thanks Jeff,
An interesting thing about the slugs found was that some were easily twice the size as others. None from last years total slugout were this large.
Paul

...sounds like a good idea. I do wish you would keep this info public...I am curious as well. Maybe I'm just stupid....but, what do you mean exactly by mass? My mind seems to want to complicate this. Do you mean weight per neonate or some kind of calculation involving actual body mass...like weight per centimeter of length?

Yeah!! I bought a scale! I'm ready! (Thank goodness I can finally use it for something important) Dust it off....it's ready to go!

>>Hey all,
>>
>>First, congrats to Paul on the nice clutch. That must be one of the first of the season. It got me thinking that I'd like to keep a tally of a few stats in order to start up a friendly competition between a few like-minded folks. If you want to play, then each time you have a clutch of Brazilians send me the following info:
>>
>>1) Number of babies
>>2) Age of female
>>3) Mass of babies
>>
>>I could put up a little congratulatory post at the end of 2006 to aknowlege the winner of each category. If you can think of any other categories, let me know and I'll add them to the list. Let's start with any clutches that have been born in 2006. I suppose you could either post your stats here or e-mail them to me at
>>
>>mike@tooscaley.com
>>
>>Thanks and good luck,
>>-----
>>Mike Lockwood
>>www.tooscaley.com

-----
When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

total weight, average per baby, lightest and heaviest baby.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)
2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
1.0 BCI Salmon
0.1 BCI Ghost
0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
0.1 BCI Super Ghost

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks for the simplified version.

>>total weight, average per baby, lightest and heaviest baby.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC)
>>0.2 kids (CBB)
>>2.7 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (adult breeders)
>>2.5 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2004)
>>4.8 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (sub-adult from 2005)
>>2.1 Hypomelanistic BRB
>>0.1 Het for Hypomelanistic BRB
>>0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
>>1.0 BCI Albino / het-anery
>>0.1 BCI Salmon / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Salmon (possible super)
>>1.0 BCI Albino het stripe
>>1.0 BCI Salmon
>>0.1 BCI Ghost
>>0.1 BCI Super salmon, possible jungle
>>1.0 BCI Salmon, possible jungle
>>0.1 BCI Super Ghost
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

-----
When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Linda,

I was thinking of mass of heaviest and mass of lightest baby. No need to add masses of the entire clutch. Average mass doesn't seem that important to me, but if you guys want me to keep track of it, I will.

Instead of waiting until January, maybe I'll give monthly posts as updates. I'm going to assume that if people send me their data, they don't mind me making it public.

So, you got a new scale? Dont you feel like "massing" everything in sight?
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Thanks for the reply. I guess I did make that more complicated than it should have been. Dave told me what mass was and a lightbulb popped into my mind. I haven't accessed that part of my mind in over 20 years and in my daily endeavors never come across the need to determine mass for anything. Maybe I should have finshed the 10th grade. I can figure meters squared just not mass.

The scale I bought 6 months ago has been sitting on a shelf unused except for the weighing of my biggest cat...19#. The temp guns are much more fun for me. It does weigh in grams and I am willing to give it a try, curious if my brb's that I think are small are being minimized. That is my MO.

Male Hog Island arriving tomorrow.....I better dust it off now.