Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I've come to the sad conclusion that these two babies are NOT getting any better.
Done the whole nine yards.
Did the vet visit, the vit B shot, etc
It's been a week, and there heads are still fully erect in the upwards position.
They are unable to move without flipping onto their backs, they can't eat, and when I force feed them, they end up spitting it back out.

They are obviously not having a fulfilling life.
What to do.

They are no longer the light 'healthy' colour they were, even at the beginning of all of this.
They look like they're in pain and distress.

What would you do?
This is a complete moral dilema.

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Lindsay//
::Beardeddragons.ca::
lindsay@beardeddragons.ca

Oh Lindsay, I don't envy you girl. I hate to say it, but since they're not eating and they're not getting better and its obvious that they are suffering, I would end their suffering the most humane way I could. I hear that the carbon monoxide is very humane. The humane mice and rat companies that freeze their animals use the carbon monoxide first to put them to sleep. Then whatever you do next they do not feel.

I'm getting teary eyed here sitting at work just thinking about this hard decision you have to make. But ultimately I know you will do the right thing. Let us know what happens. We are all very interested and scared for you at the same time.

Take care,
Veronica
Beautiful Dragons

it's carbon dioxide.

Joel R

.
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Lindsay//
::Beardeddragons.ca::
lindsay@beardeddragons.ca

Find somewhere you can purchase dry ice. As dry ice dissipates, it gives of CO2. You would have to put a chunk and the dragons in a sealed container.
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

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I think it might be a good idea to put them down. I would go out buy a piece of dry ice. Put the dry ice in a little dish of water place this in a sealed container. Let the fog build up in the container, open the container and place the poor little dragons in the container (not on the dry ice or in the water). The carbon dioxide will cause the dragons to become sleepy, they will fall asleep and then pass quitely in their sleep. It is the same idea as a co2 chamber. However you don't have to have a co2 canister (dry ice = solid co2). Very tough decision, but if they aren't getting better it is probably for the best.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

This is how I used to do it when i worked doing mouse experiments.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

This is how I used to do it when i worked doing mouse experiments.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I found some info on carbon monoxide from a site that gives ways to "kill with kindness."

http://www.crean.com/kindness/ebi-vs-co.html

I believe you can buy it at a welding supply place. I don't know what it costs. The Dry Ice method that Grimdog is referring to might be a better choice. Hard to say because I've never had to do this before. I'm so sorry Lindsay.

Veronica

Carbon monoxide is nasty stuff. It not only takes the place of oxygen, it binds in your blood and is hard to get out. If you use it instead of Carbon Dioxide,(which is used by many mouse places) BE CAREFULL.

Joel R

If you use Carbon Monoxide you should do it outside so you won't get it in your house. Melissa Kaplan has an article on killing rodents with CO2 and she doesn't recommend C02 to be used on reptiles but she doesn't say why. Now I'm curious.

Here's what Melissa has to say...

http://www.anapsid.org/co2.html

(sorry about all the links... just trying to help...)

Veronica

Your right,, it doesn't say why? Hmmmm.

what i would do, put them down. If you did all there is you could do ,if there is no improvement i wouldnt think its worth it to continue their suffering. You did all that you could for them, but if they are no longer eating and cant move without flipping over, i would feel the quality of life is not there and probably will never be. Sorry for you and the babies, know how sad it is to see these lil guys like this. Its a wonderful thing that for our animals we have the option to give them a humane end to an otherwise unhumane existence.
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reiko
photos

if you have never put an animal to sleep before, you might just want to take them to the vet, it might be really hard on you to do it yourself also, just a suggestion, it might be more costly but, in this situation, it might be better then doing it yourself especially because you would be guessing at what you were doing....
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reiko
photos

With all I have just read on carbon monoxide and dioxide it appears that the dosage and length of time have to be just right. If the inhalent isn't strong enough it could take a long time... That could be miserable. I would recommend what Reiko said, take them to the vet and have them do it humanely. That way you won't have to feel bad if you mess up or it takes longer than it should or something terrible goes wrong.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Veronica

When I had to put down my pet mouse, it only cost me about $5 to pay for it. I highly doubt these poor little dragons would cost more than that. Sorry to hear your efforts to treat them have not had positive results.

I agree the best thing to do is to end their suffering.

Are you sure that you really want to do this yourself? I wouldn't be able to. Can you afford to bring them to the vet? I am just afraid with the whole carbon dioxide thing that there are too many things that could go wrong. Chances are it won't be instant. The choice of course is up to you, but I think it would be more humane to take them to a vet.
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Mommy of 6 Leopards
Milo(my male) Mongo, Raptor,and Spaz
My babies Popeye and Boo(named after Monster's Inc. Character)
2 Dogs
Baby a Peekapoo and Meshu a terrier mix
And a Cat named Mr. Kitty

I would like to thank everyone SO MUCH for being so supportive.
I"ve talked to a few people off the board, who have given me the courage and support I really needed.
i won't be doing it with the gas, as it's far too dangerous and not necessary with dragons, as they're cold blooded animals.

tonight I will be putting these two little angels to rest, so they can life a more enjoyable life in heaven.

I love them both, but life isn't complete for them.
NOr will it ever be.

Thank you everyone again.
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Lindsay//
::Beardeddragons.ca::
lindsay@beardeddragons.ca

I would like to thank everyone SO MUCH for being so supportive.
I"ve talked to a few people off the board, who have given me the courage and support I really needed.
i won't be doing it with the gas, as it's far too dangerous and not necessary with dragons, as they're cold blooded animals.

tonight I will be putting these two little angels to rest, so they can life a more enjoyable life in heaven.

I love them both, but life isn't complete for them.
NOr will it ever be.

Thank you everyone again.

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Lindsay//
::Beardeddragons.ca::
lindsay@beardeddragons.ca

i think thats the right choice lindsay, sorry for the poor lil guys, you certianly did the best you could and gave them the best chance possible at life...........
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reiko
photos

Now those two angels will be able to enjoy what is out there waiting for us.... I love this story and you've probably heard it a million times, I just thought it was appropriate.

The Rainbow Bridge

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals that had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Good luck Lindsay. You're in my thoughts and prayers. Now the little ones will be with all of our dearly loved beardies who have passed on, including Egor, whom I lost a year ago. God Bless.

Veronica

I'm sorry that it has to come to this point. I feel so bad when I see that pic of that poor little guy. I'm sure your choice will be the right one. He'll be in a nicer place shortly. So sorry for the losses.
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Mystical Dragons

If you feel it is time to put them down I would call the vet and talk to them and see if they can help with a discount. Let them know you have multiple dragons and remind them of the whole situation. I would say it shouldnt be more then 100-150 dollars all together. Make sure you have them give them anesthia first, because the euthanazia shot can be very very hurtful to them because it is almost always hard for them to find a vein and have to actually stick the needle right into a chest organ. If they are willing to give a multiple animal discount, it shouldnt be too expensive to do it a harmless way and you will know for sure it worked right away etc. I personally would not put a reptile down using the methods that rodent keepers/breeders use. People forget that mammals (rodents) respiration rate is much higher then that of a reptiles (bearded dragons). While it will take an adult mouse or rat not very long to die, it may take a dragon many hours. Even then how do you determine it isnt just passed out with very little respiration. My vet said it isnt always easy to determine when a reptile has passed, because when they have been stressed or exposed to certain chemicals, their breathing can be reduced to 1-2 times a minute, sometimes less and that is still enough to keep them alive. Honestly I feel dry ice or any of those things will not work exactly how everyone hopes.

I am very sorry you have to do this and I hope that you will contact the vet for your sake as well as the babies. LindsayMarie

That last email was from my heart, not meant to discourage you. I did not want to see you being both emotionally and financially drained throught this and them suffering.

One of the greatest acts as an owner you can do for a beloved pet, it to know when to let them go

Lindsey,
as I read your post, I couldn't hold back the tears, my heart is breaking for both you and the precious babies that will soon be leaving this earth. I know it is a heartbreaking decision, but the babies will finally be in peace and won't have to suffer anymore.
One year ago, I lost my 4 year old cousin (he had a rare blood disease). He loved animals, especially reptiles and bearded dragons. I can just see him now welcoming your precious little dragons into heaven and I know he will shower them with love.
I'm so sorry that this had to happen to your babies, things like this seem so sinceless and cruel and unfortunatly death is a part of life and it's always bad to have to watch any baby die, weather it be human or animal. Hopefully one day vets will be better educated in how to treat reptile illnesses. You and your precious little angels are in my thoughts and heart. Christy