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a hypo boa, pastel boa, and a salmon boa? I've been trying to figure out which would be the better choice to pair up with my albino girl. I'm also looking into DH's but I'm confused about the "genetics" of each of the three I listed. Any insight would be appreciated.

salmon is a type of hypo developed by Rich Ihle. The other type of hypo is the orange tail which was developed by Jeff Gee. I would like to hear some opinions about pastels being hypo as well. I never thought they were but recently I have heard people put them in the hypo category. Any thoughts?
Michael Burton

The Ihle "Salmon" is a bloodline of hypomelanistic boa, as is the Gee/Hardy "Orangetails".

They are both hypos.
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If I were to pick a boa represented as either a hypo or salmon, I'm getting the same offspring? DH sunglows? am I getting this?

you say "hypo or salmon" You normally don't hear this because a "salmon" is a hypo....It is a bloodline of the hypo. I believe most of the hypos out there are "salmons" and not "orange tails". So if it just says hypo or even DH sunglow, most likely it is a "salmon" hypo. You can also just ask the breeder and they will most likely know if it is a "salmon" or "orange tail." Hope this helps. Someone will hopefully chime in and explain it a little better.
Michael Burton

np

A hypo or hypomelanistic boa is one that has less black pigment (melanin) than normal. Think of it as a catchall term. Salmons, pastels, orangetails and possibly some others have less melanin than a normal boa but for different reasons. So do T-positive boas, but people will scream like a wounded buffalo if you call them hypos.

Rich Ihle's breeding results showed that his hypomelanistic snakes were hypos because of a dominant mutant gene that he named "salmon". Orangetails may also be produced by a dominant mutant gene, but there is no guarantee that the orangetail mutant and the salmon mutant are the same or even related mutant genes. Pastels are supposed to be a line selectively bred to be lighter colored than normal.

As others have already written, most of the hypos and probably 99% of the DH sunglows out there are salmons.

Paul Hollander

Paul, you clearly are very knowledgeable when it comes to genetic...but lets simplify it a little. Salmon and Orangetail are bloodlines of a compatible gene. Both are hypos and when bred together or crossed, they produce a super form of the hypo.
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Both are hypos and when bred together or crossed, they produce a super form of the hypo.

But is the super form produced by a pair of mutant alleles? Or is it produced by the additive action of two independent dominant mutants, a double het? The only way to know is to take some of the supers from a salmon x orangetail mating and mate them to normals. If any normals show up, then the supers are double hets. I haven't heard whether this test has been done. I'd be grateful for any information you have on this point.

Paul Hollander

have produced litters from Orange Tail X Salmon breedings. The results are the same as Salmon X Salmon or OT X OT. Rich Ihle labels his Hypos from such breedings as such, and I do believe he has bred Supers from those breedings to non-hypo animals to produce litters of 100% hypo.

Rich Ihle's matriarch Salmon was from Panama. Dr. Hardy's animal that started the OT line was also from Panama, a picture of Dr. Hardy with this animal can be seen on salmonboa.com.

One thing that does stand to be proven is if these Hypo lines are compatible with Nicaraguan Hypos.

:

Ronne (who made pastels through many years of selective breeding, selecting for multiple traits) says they have an overall wash of reduced black. They are technically hypomelanistic when compared to normals. He didn't say they are lighter in color, fact he says that he selected for more color, not less. I would never call a pastel a hypo in any other situation but this one, but in fact a real pastel is a type of hypomelanism.

Not to confuse the starter of this thread, it is not ever called a hypo boa in any other context. For the rest of you, it is hypomelanistic, is it not? Not all hypos are pastels but all pastels are hypomelanistic, but pastel is made up of much more than just an overall wash of reduced black, it is also colorful.

Caden

I am in the process of getting a hypo dream pastel - and have been doing alot of research on the pastel trait. In certain cases I would have to disagree with Ronne's statement "...the increase in color is a by-product and not part of the pastel trait."

Perhaps in his bloodline this is true. However since pastel, by definition, is most likely a polygenic trait, it has many variations some of which I believe may truly be an INCREASE in color.

What makes color more vivid? The type and quantity of melanin (red or yellow or black) that is present. But that is not the only variation that can occur. Pastelism is more complex than just removing the black. It seems to me that the reds and yellows are also "creme-ified" or "orange-ified" in certain pastel lines. I believe that modifications of red and yellow can also occur and are not necessarily linked to the reduction in black LAYERS of color. (hence this explains Normals with pastelish coloration).

I speculate that the two traits (reduced black, enhanced color) sometimes occur together and are linked in some cases - resulting in your "true" pastels.

Take the red horse with a creme gene added...is the horse more GOLDEN because the black is no longer there in the red? No, the red itself is cremified at the same time that black is reduced...just like adding yellow to red paint - the result is orange or gold. There is also a reduction in black...

I believe there is a creme gene working on some of these pastels and also in normals - it produces the pretty pastelish sides and rainbow colors. It may work in tandem with a black-reducing gene (ie hypo) to also reduce the amount and pattern of black - so that the gold/orange/whatever colors show through.

The orange on this snake below exists only because he does not have alot of black melanin???

As I am sure you know Hypomelanistic means a reduction in black pigment. Pastels by definition express this, the increase in color is a by-product and not part of the pastel trait. As defined by Jeff Ronne.

There is a recessive Hypomelanistic mutation in boas as well, it has been called Boawoman Hypo or Caramel boa. It looks nothing like the typical boa you picture when someone says they have a Hypo, however it is TECHNICALLY Hypomelanistic.

A combined use of slang, scientific terminology, and incorrect information, have led to a wide use of names for various traits and mutations.

I have heard people say there are three types of hypos salmon, orange tails, and pastels. Is this correct? I realize they have reduced black pigment as well, but are they a type of hypo too. I never thought they were until I recently heard this a couple times. Thanks.

the offspring of a salmon het albino bred with an albino? I would like to see some

Go to Rich's site www.salmonboa.com or check some of the photo posts below. They are rather common these days.
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