Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Got up this morning, went out to check on my girl Argentine Rainbow and saw a horrible sight. 5 undeveloped egg sacs. They were bright orange colored and in a couple of them, I could see what looked like slugs.(early stages of development) She still seems to be lumpy and have some in her...Is it possible she could give birth to live ones? Is there anything I should look for or do? At this rate, it looks like I might get the award for most slugs

Thanks,
John

Sorry John. I know you were really looking forward to this clutch. I don't know if we will be able to hekp but I want to start my making a distiction between slugs and stillborn.

When we say slugs, we are referring to ova that have not been fertilized. They are usually bright orange in coloration and have absolutely no development.

Quote:
"They were bright orange colored and in a couple of them, I could see what looked like slugs.(early stages of development)"

It's hard for me to tell if you had slugs or if you had babies which were born before the fully developed. This is an important distinction to make.

If they were infertile slugs (sounds like it) then there is eithe a problem with the fertility of the male or the receptivity of the female. Alternatively, there is no problem with either snake, they just didn't copulate at the correct time.

If they were fertilized embryos then something must have occurred during gestation. My guess is that she may have not had adequate basking temperatures.

Either way, If you suspect there are slugs or embryos retained withing the female, get her to an experienced reptile vet quickly. Time is of the essence.

Let us know of any new info
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

They were definately orange slugs. 5 of them. Since I was out there at 6 am, I thought I would give her more time to see if she passes more. How long could the process take? When I get home I will look to see if there are more than 5 slugs...if there isn't and I feel her and she is lumpy still, I will get her to the vet. I am actually going to call this afternoon and tell them i might be coming. Does this sound right. Thanks for the reply.

John

John,
....There is a chance that she still has live babies to deliver but overwhelming odds are that the lumps are more slugs. The problem is the slugs. They are less slimy than babies in membranous sacs and are prone to stick inside the oviducts. One thing to try before going to the vet is to put her in a tub of mildly warm water so that she will rehydrate and also she will try to swim and the swimming action may help to get the retained slugs moving. On the other hand. Sometimes after laying they just seem lumpy from the contraction and within several hours they relax and you find that there are actually no real lumps retained. And one final thought. Most vets are not going to have experience with this problem and there are limited effective safe treatments for it.
Good luck,
Jeff

>>They were definately orange slugs. 5 of them. Since I was out there at 6 am, I thought I would give her more time to see if she passes more. How long could the process take? When I get home I will look to see if there are more than 5 slugs...if there isn't and I feel her and she is lumpy still, I will get her to the vet. I am actually going to call this afternoon and tell them i might be coming. Does this sound right. Thanks for the reply.
>>
>>John

Is there a way to help her move them? I have heard of people trying to sort of "massage" the egg to the vent? I called my wife and she hasn't seen any more slugs laid, so I will take a look when I get home and set her up in the tub. Thanks, John

John,
...Trying to massage them along sometimes works but do it very gently.
Jeff

>>Is there a way to help her move them? I have heard of people trying to sort of "massage" the egg to the vent? I called my wife and she hasn't seen any more slugs laid, so I will take a look when I get home and set her up in the tub. Thanks, John

Jeff,
Now I am not so sure she didnt get em all out. I put her in the tub for a while, it removed most of her shed. I also felt all along her vent side and didnt feel any lumpiness or anything in there. I even gently took my thumb and ran it along to see if i could feel anything move and didn't. She seemed ok, so I am really not sure. She definately was not happy being in there or my poking and prodding. At this point I am not sure if I need to take her to the vet or not. Any other things I should look for?

Thanks,
john

John,
...Prolly time to feed her. Let her eat a good size meal and see how she does with it.
Jeff

>>Jeff,
>> Now I am not so sure she didnt get em all out. I put her in the tub for a while, it removed most of her shed. I also felt all along her vent side and didnt feel any lumpiness or anything in there. I even gently took my thumb and ran it along to see if i could feel anything move and didn't. She seemed ok, so I am really not sure. She definately was not happy being in there or my poking and prodding. At this point I am not sure if I need to take her to the vet or not. Any other things I should look for?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>john

I ended up talking to my herp vet over the phone. There were no more slugs and she ate 2 small rats. She just shed too, so she looks beautiful and still very plump, since she ate the whole time. Kind of disappointing, but she is still young and I will try again next year. Thanks for the help everyone. She had 7 slugs total...some of them seen here

I noticed she had defacated sometime during or after the slug laying process?

John

Definately infertile. Oh well, you're right. There's always next season. I'm glad to hear the female is O.K. That's the important thing
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

John,
Sorry to hear about your female dropping slugs. I think you mentioned that the breeding took place during sudden changes in weather. This is what spurred my pair to mate this past year and I was concerned that she would also throw slugs this year (last year she had 23 slugs; why could'nt there have been a contest then!). I think the real successful breeders manipulate their snakes environment over the entire season and are very consistent in what they do (see Jeff's caresheets and Dave's 'breeding 101'); this causes the timing to be as good as we can expect in a temperate environment (timing is everything). I bet if you control their environment over the course of the year you'll have a better opportunity for success.
Again, sorry for the slugs; I know how disappointing that is.
Paul