Reptile & Amphibian Forums

WC 4' atrox sporadically feeding on live adult mice (no other triggers work) I went to feed him Friday night alive animal, I left the adult mouse alone in the cage, the snake struck, the animal walked away, next morning, the mouse was still alive, 11am that morning I saw the mouse UPSIDE DOWN IN atrox mouth struggling to get free, bit with both fangs one in abdomen one in chest (now I thought he was a gonner)
that night the mouse was running around the cage.

bruised tail
hematoma ears
Non weight bearing on one foot
otherwise fine
I took him out of the cage and put him in a single cage by himself for 1 week where he became perfectly normal

then tried to feed him to a 2.5 foot speckled rattlesnake
after the strike, walked around for 4 minutes then VERY VERY sudden became neurological, jumping around loss of muscle control, finally flipped onto back started bicycle kicking GASPING for air until he died 20 seconds later.

possibilities?
2 consecutive dry bites from the atrox?
Highly neurological speckled?

How does a mouse survive 3 puncture wounds into the chest from a 4' atrox? even if it was a dry bite?

Anyone ever see this before?
Any ideas?
Just wanted to share my findings and get some feedback
Sincerely
PatrickR

While puncture wounds from a snake's fang arn't exactly done as gently as a physician's needle, it's not the doomed wound that TV makes it out to be...

Now for your snake...
1)Could it be stressed, and these were defensive bites, thus venom conserved? (from your story, I doubt it, but perhaps?)

2)I think it would be more likely that your atrox is having a delivery problem than the mouse having super immunity. Dehydration (I think it'd have to be pretty drastic), facial tumours (bilateral, or large enough to block both sides...look inside the mouth), or perhaps a hormonal or metabolism disease that is affecting venom production. For example, (I"m just talking out of my arse now because I don't know the metabolic pathways for venom production) if this animal is in kidney failure, the hormones produced by the kidney are no longer excreted, and venom is no longer produced... get what I'm leaning towards?

Good luck with your snake

Ian

The snake in question is VERY healthy, not stressed unless he sees me, I put the mouse in the cage when he was in his hide so he never knew I was there, he has eaten for me before, he is perfect body weight and condition seen him drinking so not dehydrated and mouth is unobstructed, I checked with a speculum 3 days ago, mous was fairly large, so I doubt the fangs went through and through

Maybe just an anomily

interesting none the less

Just a few WAGs.

First bite might have been defensive and dry. Not unusual.

A fang in the abdomen might possibly have deposited it's venom inside the stomach or intestines?

A fang in the chest I don't know. Maybe the venom went somewhere inside the chest cavity where it was not absorbed (or absorbed very slowly)? I don't know where that would be.

Like the other poster said, there might be something wrong with the snake.

Are the diamondback's fangs long enough to go right through the mouse? I know it's rare, but I'm sure there have been cases in the right conditions of fangs going through a small prey item and shooting the venom out the exit wound-I know, unlikely, but maybe.
Interesting in any case.

This is a cool discussion...

The abdomenal injection is quite likely a fluke into the GI tract, where it would have a good chance of digestion prior to absorption. The chest though.... is the fastest mode of delivery next to IV. Perhaps the fang entered the chest, then through the diaphragm, and wallah, right into the stomach sitting right there Lucky mouse whether we guess how or not!

Ian