Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have looked over several threads on different forums and the pleasant debate on Burms allways come to the same conclusion:

Stalemate.

Eveybody thinks their right.

(surprised)

I have heard everything from it just being releases, to thousands of documented specimens and eggs being documented for years! Some of the most adamant confirmed believers have never even set foot in Florida.

Yet they know.

Oddly, for some strange reason, our news media which hypes everything of this nature, or for that matter every snake story in the country they can get a reporter to...has never reported a single Burm nest found.

It would make headlines here...so why not?

Nor have any of the threads (save Larry's below--LOL) shown any kind of eggs.

The only way to put this baby to bed is photographic Documentation.

In other words, photos from an unimpeachable source.

Want to end the debate?

Its put up--or shut up time, my friends.

Even the Yeti left fur behind....lololololololol....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

"Even the Yeti left fur behind....lololololololol"

ROTFLMAO!! And they STILL haven't caught one of those.

I agree though. The only way to be sure is to document, with pics or actual specimens, findings of either nests or very young burms. I certainly believe the climactic conditions in Florida are ideal for burm reproduction, but until we see proof we should all, including the media, take this with a grain of salt. Of course we know the media is all about 'the story' and therein lies our, as hobbyests(sp), probable downfall. Just my thoughts.

Quig

That is exactly what I am saying. Someone posted pics on Field herp showing what they describe as their research. Nice photos of a big Burm being loaded into a truck and then shown in a lab situation. Still no eggs-or netonates shown.

FRank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Come on guys, give it a rest. I am all for this forum being active, but not with repeated, dead-end threads with "There are burms in the everglades!" "Nuh uh, there aren't" "Oh yeah, prove it", etc, etc ,etc. Quite frankly it really doesn't matter. Cest-La-Vie, what will be will be. Arguing whether they are there or not there isn't going to change any outcome in legislation or media frenzy, shock-value reporting. In the meantime it just fills the forum with non-educational soap opera drivel made up of mostly uninformed opinion.

Just my .2 pennies. Not trying to start a forum brawl with y'all.
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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

yes kill this entire thread. Yes it is a fact there are burms in the glades. The amount or size really doesn't matter at this point as they shouldn't be there in the first place. If you want to know so bad go find them yourself. I have all the proof I need to come to a conclusion. Yes I'm a native Floridian one of the few left!
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
Web Site

John, Yes, I have seen your site. You are a twenty one year old Floridian that breeds Burms. I am a 54 year old Floridian who doesn't.

The trouble with proof is that some are not as willing to accept rumors as such. I am perfectly willing to accept that burms are established here with the right proof.

As noted here, I am doing something about it to obtain hard evidence, rather than endlessly claiming its so.

You might want to consider John, that this drama about the burms is exactly what people Like State Rep. Poppel wants to advance his anti-reptile agenda.

Kind of hard to be in the Burm breeding business when your main snakes get banned. This issue as you should know is one of his major justifications to pass a bill that could ban several species and leave the rest at risk.

You just might want to think about that.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Glad you've been to my website Frank (haven't touched it in who knows how long). Yes I am 21 and I’m not sure what relevance age has to do with here but I do not nor have I ever owned a Burmese python. I keep Ceylonese or Sri Lankan pythons which while in the same family are a totally different animal. Fish and game plans on putting a permit system in place. If you look back at herp history, places without permit systems in place now have bans in place (not all but plenty out there now). Florida in my opinion has no fear for bans. Let me explain. For 1) we have fish and game which regulates (Government!) our trade here. 2) They will be putting new guidelines into effect (if my Intel is correct). I could careless about paying a $100 a year permit. I'm not a cheap person for one and for 2 it would guarantee my right to keep the animals. It may or may not help the problem here. Would you rather a ban then a permit? Talk to those who have been banned and see what they have to say. Everyone is afraid of the market going underground as that is the worst case scenario but it can and maybe one day might just so happen. I back fish and game and have no problems with them. For the record Ceylonese pythons weren’t on the “list” and I highly doubt they will ever make the list as they don’t get near as large and are classified as an endangered animal. Still when the permit system does come out I won’t mind getting one anyways. If you want to cry about a permit system, cry to someone who cares. When you try and put someone in their place please read over what you have sitting in front of you before you hit that post button. You may want to think about that.

Regards
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
Web Site

Our dear Rep Poppel could care less if you call it sri lankan or ceylonese. To them it is all, Python Molurus. Now, if you had read the quotes from this brightlight, you would have known that first-he was trying to get any snake that grew to TEN FEET banned. Second, the legislation (and I do have a draft of it) stated that F&G would compile a list of species of concern that would be added later, so we had no idea what else was to be added.

So yes, your Ceylonese and my Guyana Red Tail would both be threatened. according to my reference: COLOR GUIDE TO THE SNAKES OF SRI LANKA by Anslem De Silva, P. molurus grows to a max of 6m (roughly 18 ft) on the island. That is what F&G will look at.

Age equates to experience. I have kept herps for over thirty years. I have also watched the evolution of this area and the changes in the law and in the herps over that time (actually 50 years worth).

You can't beat experience.

Of course I prefer a permit but what Rep. Poppel is after is a ban. He hates snakes. I think it wise to not let him get a foot in the door that he can expand later.

Better no legislation than flawed.

and I do read what I post....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

open your eyes. Call fish and game. NO ban will get by them. Yes this is my belief. Another reason I believe this is because the amount of income they recieve each year from the venomous and exotic permits you must obtain to keep certain animals. Did I mention the fact that Florida is like the herp HUB! You want to know why? Well lets see....venomous snakes have had a successful permit system in place for how many years now? Call fish and game and ask them lol don't ask me or anyone else here as they will be the only ones who can help you. In all honesty...you are just stiring the pot and this is a completely useless post, I'm done here.
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John Light
JL Exotics
Contact Me
Web Site

I am quite certain they thought that in other states that ended up with bans. If you were a bit older, you would be more aware of the history of efforts made here to ban reptile keeping. Its because of people who fought to keep those bans from happening that allows you to indulge your interests.

~Finis~
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I have been checking in with connections I have at a major Fla college's science dept to try and get some straight information.

My contact reached the Biologists at Everglades National Park. The informed her that they found "several very small imature pythons in the Everglades marsh far from roads" and that this has been "interpreted as evidence that the large pythons frequently found on the roads are now reprodocing in the wild."

She referedd to a biologist who found four in one spot (I'm assuming that's the pics on Field herp forum).

However, She also said, "more data was needed to prove a sustainable population."

She said she did not know of any eggs being found.

I was given a name of a person to contact for more information. I will report what I find out.

Contrary to what some of you have assumed, I am perfectly comfortable with facts--when they are backed up with evidence.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

This is getting old but please consider folks... some of us live here and it really affects us very directly. This was started because of a rumor of exotic venomous established here. We are not prepared to be spat in the eyes when we flip a board. The Animal Planet show that showed them collect a king cobra and spitter was proved to be totally set up made for tv bunk. I am really glad that is the case. The Burmese thing is pretty easy to believe without much more proof, I would think. I kinda assume at this point it is true, but like I said, the only absolute proof that burms have been released is from the scientists who admit they have done so. I will definitly be herpin that area, maybe one of their transmitters will end up at my house!

Old news by now, but I heard from Greg about Skip Snow's find.

As I said all along...prove it and I will accept that it is so.. As someone finally has, the next issue has to do with the repercussions that will certainly follow.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I will totally have to agree with you on this one Frank. I have read over the many posts on this topic lately (in other forums too) and I believe too many people are writing off this subject. I am 21 years old, and have a lot to learn still, but respect the generations before me that made things possible. Too many people take for granted the luxuries that they have and just don't care about the topic at hand because they are happy with what they got. I really wish other people my age cared about these things because IT WILL directly affect them in the future. I believe it is just plain laziness to say "I believe it will never happen and therefore don't care about the subject". Thats some real great science there.......so I would just like to say that I DO CARE about the subject and do appreciate you looking into it. I haven't learned the facts from friends or other people my age, I have learned them from older experienced breeders. So quite frankly the last few posts have shocked me

np
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

True the Yeti has still not been found... But lets look closer to home. I work in downtown Atlanta GA. There are 'claims' that 'elected officials' can actually be found 'working' here. I have worked here for 4 years and have yet to have that report actually substanciated.

Moreover, as for the laws... In Atlanta it is illegal to to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp. Thankfully all those with giraffes in the area abide by that law. Does that mean at on time or if ever that may become a problem? No. Should we ban all giraffes because they might be allowed to rome free on the interstates? Maybe, but they shouldn't penalize me as a giraffe owner because of what might happen (as long as I keep mine on a leash).
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

LMAOL......

As an ex resident (I lived in Norcross for two years) I appreciate the Atlanta perspective.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

well then congradulations on your escape from Norcross! LOL
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Rescued Ball Python - Apep
0-0-1 Rescued Bearded Dragon - Zeus
0-0-1 Rescued Non-Alpha Green Iguana - Bud
1-2-0 Rescued Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet, Isis
0-0-1 Rescued Fit and Trim Panda Hamster - Mr. Fluffy
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids