Reptile & Amphibian Forums

After reading the thread on another forum, I came on here to ask those of you that qualify as experts with Retics and perhaps other large pythons/boids. Im not asking you to either demonize, nor sanctify the snakes you are keeping or have kept, just want your honest opinion. On the "other" forum mention was made of Tiger/Supertiger Retics as being the most "placid" and "gentle" giant snake of those that are available, even burms. This flies directly in the face of what I have seen with a FEW adult c/b male Retics...Tigers,Yellowheads( Territorial and feeding response from hades also) So..I ask you all, these two questions.

#1) Out of all of the giant snakes you have owned, WHICH one type has been the most consistantly gentle and responsive?

#2) Are Tigers/Supertigers from established well known bloodlines really that much more tame and calm than , say Yellowhead that are c/b or silvers that are c/b or albino lavenders that are captive bred, or Jampeas?

I tend to like SILVERS..a lot. There was one on here years ago, I forgot its name (Hagrid?), but it was posted on here quite often, the girl that had it kept it and it got large. LOVED the way that thing looked.

Thanks for your input. Realize that this isnt the most high level Retic question and wreaks of novice, but when it comes to Retics I am just that, so please help and answer it.

Thanks in advance

Fred Albury

>>#1) Out of all of the giant snakes you have owned, WHICH one type has been the most consistantly gentle and responsive?
>>

I own a number of retics, and have cared for a number of Burmese. The retics have actually been a bit more easy-going in my experience, but far more active and alert-I think many confuse these two attributes as being "aggressive" or "not tame".

>>#2) Are Tigers/Supertigers from established well known bloodlines really that much more tame and calm than , say Yellowhead that are c/b or silvers that are c/b or albino lavenders that are captive bred, or Jampeas?
>>

No. I think people really want this to be the case, but I don't think there is any truth to the statement that tigers and supers are the most tame. Sure, 10 years ago they were the tamest because they were the FIRST CB retics. It makes sense that in a sea of WC retics that the CB tigers and supers would be the most tame. I think the early keepers recognized this, and immediately incorrectly linked that "tameness" to the morph...

I have tigers, supers, normals, albinos, and others-all are equally tame and a joy to interact with.
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~Brian Ott

www.squamations.com

I think that all of the bigger snakes command a certain level of knowledge and respect in order to keep them. Burms are known for being tame, and im not saying this isnt true but there should be a star next to this. They are extremely motivated by food, and will not hesitate to bite and constrict a person if they think its food. When I walk into my snake room and some of my friends all of the burms immediately come forward in the strike position thinking food is involved. On the other hand all the retics could care less, or might come forward and wait in a begging position, but clearly know you are the "bringer" of food, and not a food item yourself. This to me seems more tame then any burm. The other day while feeding my retic she missed her food and got near my hand and you could clearly see it bothered her. She would not take the food until I put it in there and walked away. A burm doesnt care, it will strike 100 times until it gets something it can grab and constrict. Retics are very thought out and deliberate, so if they are being respected and cared for properly there is not nearly as much risk as with a burm, in my opinion. As has been mentioned before retics know there owners before they even enter the room, and a burm doesnt care who is who. One of my friends retics absolutely hates me, and he knows as soon as I am there. He hisses and starts to move around alot, wont eat in front of me and will not under any condition let me pick him up. Find me a burm like that. I also think the rocks are another under appreciated snake. Higher inteligence than a burm all day, and also very deliberate. I have yet to see a rock strike ever without warning of some kind, be it posture, hissing or some type of movement. I ve only been around about half a dozen rocks, but havent found one I didnt like. These snakes are not right for everyone however as they can be quite moody, and if you dont take the warnings seriously your in trouble. In the end I think burms get taken for granted to often and thats where the problems begin, whereas retics and rocks come with a sometimes nasty reputation that allows for more caution. In the end for the right owner any of these big snakes can be gentle giants, its all about respect and alot of common sense.

Here what I have:
2.1 Brown Water Pythons
1.0 Everglades Rat snake
1.0 Ball 66% Het Albino
1.0 Normal Burm
0.1 Albino Burm
1.1 Borneo Short tails
1.0 African Rock Python
0.1 Reticulated Python
1.0 Albino Granite Burm (Just Visiting)
I have pics of all if anyone wants to see them email me @ fuscusking@yahoo.com

Are you sure it is a feeding response when your burms come forward? Mine do that too, but I think it is just out of curiosity. Just a few thoughts on their respective intelligences - The retics "alertness" could be seen as nervousness of not being certain about their surroundings. I think a burm's brain has more of a capacity to process and remember what is and is not a threat, which would lead to their docile and amiable personality, being displayed in the form of greater interaction in their environment as a result of their certainty in their environment. With my retics, you sometimes have to tap them with the snake hook before they even move, which to me indicates a mental level that does not show interest in their surroundings unless it confronts them first. When I let my burms out, they explore the whole room, but my retics just try and find a hiding spot and remain there until I move them. Even my nicer retics sometimes try to evade being taken out of their cage, but my burms come up toward me and embrace getting to come out. They just seem more intelligent to me. I would put a burms feeding response against a retics any day though. My little ones (3 feet) will strike at their 7th mouse as forociously as their 1st, even after an overstuffed belly, whereas my retics often leave prey when they are just full. My 4 foot burm eats 3 jumbo rats when my 6 foot retic only eats 2. Of the few rocks I have seen, "moody" is an understatement. They continually bit the glove, thrashed their body around and crapped all over the place. They were juvi's though, so that could explain it. I could just see that attitude remaining over time if not expertly tamed out. I would recommend a burm and a retic before a rock, definitely. These are just my experiences though and every snake has it's own personality and quirks. I would agree with others here that respect, caution and slow and deliberate movements should ALWAYS be employed when handling these snakes, even if they are small, because a bad handling incident could affect an animals attitude for years to come.

I agree with you on the Burmese and their coming to "investigate" what is near the window. All of mine do that as well, but it seems more like curiosity than agressive behaviour. I usually just open the cage and let them know it's not lunch. They either crawl out and take off down the hallway or back away and pout because they're not getting fed.
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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

I have raised several retics and have normals, tigers, and supertigers. This is just my opinions and direct experience with them. Of all my various boas/pythons I have been bitten far less by retics than all the others combined. You have to understand retic behavior and their strong feeding response. Once the feeding response is cancelled and out of the cage my retics are very docile and appear to like being out and handled. They are very intelligent and inquisitive snakes. Of course you never take them lightly, always have your guard up, and have a person(s) that know what to do with you when handling the big ones. I have not had a retic when out suddenly strike me for no apparent reason as I have burms do. It has often been said that the tigers/supers are calmer than normals but many dispute this. In my experience my tigers/supers do seem a bit more inclined to have a milder feeding response and to drop that response more than my normals. They seem more laid back. I have encountered some really nsatty tigers/supers also. Every snake is an individual and most are what there keepers make them to be. Bill.
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...three years ago it was just another snake cult...
The Retic is King.
Anacondas-the other Dark Side.
Afrocks-the dark side of the Dark Side.

I used to collect all the pics that got posted of him...

Those are some interesting & insightful reponses. I'm not a
retic keeper, but after a couple more years of research I might be.

I will say this much, I don't like albino's in boas or burms,
but Retic albinos are truly gorgeous reptiles. They seem much
less yellow & more white...

T.C.,
Im not sure it was HAGRID, your right he WAS a bat eater. This Retic was a SILVER, and grew quite large.He had a cool name also. Damn.....memory is the first thing to go, thats what they say......Now...where are my teeth?

LOL Fred A

He is a cross between a bateater and a burmese, which makes him three-quarters burmese, one-quarter retic. These are called jungle burmese by some people. I think they actually look much nicer than bateaters.

Kelly

Personalities. Retics are smart and each snake has it's own personality. I have seen (& owned) mean Normals, Tigers, Supers, and Albinos that were all CBB snakes. But on the same token I have seen CBB Retics that were Norms, Tigers, Supers, and normals that were the sweetest animals.
Retics are like a box of chocolates, you never know whatchyah gonna get.
If you buy one get a cbb animal. The chances are greater that the snake will be "tame" and make a great pet. But remember that personalities vary between animals.
Good luck.
Tails With Scales Reptiles

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Christine
Tails With Scales Reptiles
Happiness is biting my snake back!

Fred~ I believe you are thinking of Dengar, a gorgeous silver that Charlotte used to post from time to time. If memory serves he was produced by Mark Kennedy. Hope this helps.

Regarding temperment, I don't feel that the genes that are linked to behavior are linked with those that produce different patterns. I agree with the previous post in that until fairly recently retics were generally not widely captive bred.

Thank you so much. It might have taken me upwards of a month to remember this(No joke, sad but true) For the life of me I couldnt get the name right and kept coming back to Hagrid. So, when the last time you saw Dengar posted?

Thanks a ton,

Fred Albury

#1) Out of all of the giant snakes you have owned, WHICH one type has been the most consistantly gentle and responsive?
--I have kept more Burmese pythons than Reticulated in my collection over the past 12 or so years. I also worked at an exotic pet store and was in charge of the reptiles for 6+ years there. In all of the giant constrictors, it is my opinion that Burmese pythons are the more "gentle" of the 2 in question. For the giants that I have raised from a baby into adulthood, the Burms I have owned have always been more trustworthy. I have a 6.5 year old female albino green named "carmela" and have had her since she was 4 weeks old; she has NEVER offered to bite and has NEVER struck at the glass in her cage when food was in the room or just after eating. ALL of the retics I have owned have done so. But in saying that, the 2 retics that I have now (a super and a normal from Baldogo tiger parents) are dog tame outside of their cage, and the male normal is really turing into a lapdog.
I also think it really depends on how they are raised (like any other animal). Handle them as much as you can for the first 6 months you have them and I believe you will be well rewarded with great pets either way.

#2) Are Tigers/Supertigers from established well known bloodlines really that much more tame and calm than , say Yellowhead that are c/b or silvers that are c/b or albino lavenders that are captive bred, or Jampeas?
From people who have owned animals rom the original Tiger line and who have owned others (including me), I believe you have a better chance of having a tame animal from this bloodline. The only c.b. Jampea I have had came from the Baldogos as well and she was very tame once out of her cage. I had her for 5 years and never had problems with her. You just have to understand retic behaviour. The only albinos I have ever worked with were at the pet shop I worked at, and they were not tame. We received them when they were 4 months old, so I don't know how they were handled before that. I do know they would not hesitate to bite.

In my opinion, if you want a giant, get a Burmese python. If you have your heart set on a retic (which I think you do, LOL!), then get a normal silver from original Tiger bloodlines. I think this will give you the best chance at owning a TRUE gentle giant.

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

I think the retics strike the glass because they don't understand transparent walls yet, but the burms maybe have a firmer grasp of whats inside and outside their cage. Burms will hover up and down the glass but not strike until prey is in front of them, while retics will sometimes strike repeatedly at the same area of glass if they see you feeding another snake or as you lift the prey to put in their cage. Again, more gentle and maybe more intelligent. I also love your signature, it's from the first Prophecy film! I love Christopher Walken in that movie, I think that's the best part he's ever played. Be sure to see the next two if you haven't already, they made three in all.

I would really like to see the burms you guys have, as I have never seen one that wouldnt strike at glass or at least think about it. My 13 year old burm still strikes the glass and he was cb and he eats more than any snake I have. I have worked with dozens of burms and they all are food mongers and have to constantly be reminded that they are not eating. I also havent seen many retics that come out and try to hide. Mine will come out and has to go all over the place and everywhere. She nevers strikes the glass and never offers a food response unless she is being fed. The other retics I have worked with will beg, but once you opne the door and dont have food they let it go. The retic that I have now was a resuce and had a really bad mouth infection and my friend had to pull teeth out of her mouth by hand and nnever once did she even try to bite him, and it wasnt like this was a one time thing, she had to have her mouth cleaned out by hand daily for a few weeks. Find me a burm that would understand, or trust someone enough to let them do that. Once you have earned your retics trust and respect there is a bond there you just cant ever get with a burm. Burms are still one of my favorites, but they are the blondes of the snake world.

I guess this is what I meant by experiences and how you raise an animal. Everyone is going to have different experiences with certain animals. Of all of the burms I have raised from a baby to breeding size/age, NONE of them ever showed ANY aggression towards me. The thing is though, I would just about take them everywhere with me while they were very young. They would get handled by many people and just figured out that humans were OK. I see the same thing happening with the retics I am raising now, except for the fact that I cannot stick my hand into their cage without getting struck at. Once outside the cage, however, the are AWESOME. The burms that I have now I can interact with them both inside AND outside their cage. This is just my experience of course. I really believe it is how they are raised when very young, the amount of handling they receive, and a little luck as well. Either way, there is NOTHING more satisfying than taking a 14 ft. monster out for a stroll in your sunny backyard!!

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

I actually got this quote from a band calle ZAO. This came from the intro to their song titled "Ravage Ritual". I did not know that it also came from "prophecy" as well. I had seen that movie a long time ago and loved it. C. Walken is da man!!!

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

Wrong forum, but have you got any more pics of that albino green??? That thing is unreal!

Here are some of her that I have on the gallery here. She is 6 years old, between 11 and 12 feet long and is the tamest snake I own. I hope to take more photos of her outside now that we have a yard. Hope you enjoy "Carmela".

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

She's beautiful! I've seen so few large albino greens... love the almost solid yellow!

I have a rescue. we usually take any giant snake. (i do mean any, if we have room, meaning temperment isnt an issue) There are no rescues in the surrounding states that will accept the challenge of a pissed off, abused, usually starved 20 ft anything. I haven't had any experience with albino or super tiger retics. i have had a few regulars and a few tigers. i've had reg burms and albinos. I have one reg burm that once raised up at my husband to eye level (he's 6 ft and a few inches) that was quite a site to see. he didnt hiss or strike and when i stopped laughing i picked up the part of his body still on the ground and he lowered back down and i put him in the cage while my hubby went potty. (lol). I think the burms are a little 'dumber' (im not saying theyre dumb, just that the retics seem more aware) I've also found that burms have been easier to tame back down after being abused or starved or what not. in general the burms come to me in worse condition than the retics so i dont think its a matter of 'that one had a better history so it tames faster'. i spend equal time with each, no matter what condiditon in. i let the 'worst' case determine the time spent on the rest. so that isnt really an issue either.
i love burms and i love retics. i prefer the burms b/c they are lazier. they arent ever as strong as the retics (which little 150 lb me likes as well) they dont need near the caging as a retic the same size (although they usually get it anyway. i've never been bit by a rescued burm or retic. they strike but im smaller and faster than them. they've never tried to get me when im feeding. all our snakes come out of thier cages and go in the back yard for dinner and after about 30 minutes, they're ready to be picked up and put back. (it takes a weekend to feed everyone) i've adopted out most of the burms and retics we've gotten. we're currently down to one burm that we will be keeping (the one that raised up at my husband, hehehe) and we're anxiously awaiting the arrival of a 20 ft burm and a 23 ft retic from someone in TN thats going to Iraq. the people i adopt to havent ever had a problem with them and i'm still in contact with all of them (they gotta get food somewhere). just thought id give a different perspective. the rescues we get are 95 % cranky and want your face for a snack, they leave here tame and happy or they dont leave at all.
Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Great post!! It is nice to hear from you on this. Definitely a different perspective, but one that should also be discussed as well. It is unfortunate that alot of large constrictors (as well as other herps and animals in general) end up abandoned or unable to be cared for. It is nice to know that folks like you and your organization are out there to ensure that some of these animals get a chance. Thank you for your efforts!

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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile Breeders
sonoranreptile@cox.net
"I remember the first war, the way the sky burned
The faces of angels destroyed
I saw a third of Heaven's legion banished
And the creation of hell
I stood with my brothers and watched lucifer fall
But now, my brothers aren't my brothers" -- Zao

you have no idea the smile you just put on my face. we've been having some rough times around here and someone was just all over me about my dogs and i was really frustrated. now im doing much better. i actually printed your post out to hang on my bulliten board. we dont get much recognition for taking in the big guys. most people are just like 'why would you want that thing? ewww!' so that was a refreshing change. again thank you. and btw- if you ever need to give up that beauty in the picture... im always here. hehehehe. I'd love to have things like that, we just... we were saving up money to get an albino red tail as an anneversary gift to ourselves. we ended up spending the money to convert the garage into a herp house and build some new iguana/beardie/monitor cages instead. they're getting a new ac next weekend and they got a new heater last month (when they were on sale). I feel great about making more room for the rescue but i'm still really sad that we probably wont ever own anything thats just amazing like that. My favorites are emerald tree boas but thier price tag cost more than my car so thats out of the question. (i have emeralds painted all over my office and pics of them everywhere in the garage now) any way- i'm glad there are people out there like you that can afford to buy and care for spectacular animals like that. i know she's got to be loads of fun... well, its getting late so thank you again. you brightened my day... night. i'm still smiling. I love it when rescues get recognition, i know it means a lot to me and i know others with rescues and i know it means a lot to them as well.
Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue