Reptile & Amphibian Forums

And uh...
Her eyes

A) Are still shut.
B) Weren't even addressed at the vet
C) Are Still shut.
D) I was told "She's dehydrated, lol"
E) This guy is reptile specialist.
F) I was told my some reptile guys i know that own a reptile specialty store that she needs misting.
G) She was literally MAN HANDLED by this guy. I mean hell... he was like, "Let's get a fecal sample" He Crams this huge tube up her small (you know what) and her eyes opened the WIDEST i have ever seen. She hisses turns black get's real upset. Then he takes the tube out, and she poops evvvvvvvvvvverywhere (Sorry for the graphic detail, i'm cross between really pissed and really depressed). He then tells me she has some bacteria in her intestine, and that that is normal, but he wants to give her some stuff anyway. He then sticks a tube down her throat and injects a bunch of stuff down there. Again, real upset.

Then he procedes to give her 3 injections in her belly and body. All the while man handling her... maybe i'm overreacting to the way she was dealt with... but chhhhhhhhrist.

Now her eyes are STILL shut, and she's blind, running around her cage falling off of stuff. STILL SHUT.

I even did some Saline solution stuff to her eyes... no result.
What In the Hell is up.

Gruphghg...

I gotta go kick something.

I was hoping things would go well for you and your chameleon at the vets.

You said...her eyes "Weren't even addressed at the vet"...you mean he didn't even mention them??

You said..."I was told "She's dehydrated, lol"...what did the vet base that on?

You said..."She was literally MAN HANDLED by this guy. I mean hell... he was like, "Let's get a fecal sample" He Crams this huge tube up her small (you know what) and her eyes opened the WIDEST i have ever seen. She hisses turns black get's real upset. Then he takes the tube out, and she poops evvvvvvvvvvverywhere (Sorry for the graphic detail, i'm cross between really pissed and really depressed). He then tells me she has some bacteria in her intestine, and that that is normal, but he wants to give her some stuff anyway. He then sticks a tube down her throat and injects a bunch of stuff down there. Again, real upset"...what did he put down her throat? Is he testing the fecal for anything?

You said..."Then he procedes to give her 3 injections in her belly and body. All the while man handling her... maybe i'm overreacting to the way she was dealt with... but chhhhhhhhrist"...injections of what?

You said..."What In the Hell is up"....that's a good question.
Are you supposed to take her back...or it that the end of it in the vet's eyes??

Urrgghhh!!

Hey,

All of the vets I have ever dealt with (only 4 or 5) have man handled the chams in the same way. That is why I believe that you should only bring them to the vet if absolutely necessary, and never regular appointments (yes, I know it was necessary for you).

The vet seemed like he did everything possible to help your cham. I don;t know if I would have given him so much stuff in such a short amount of time, but I am not sure what condition your cham is in. If I were you, first thing I would do is make sure he is hydrated. Put him in the shower, on a plant, luke warm water, and don't have it directly hit him. Make it as fine a spray as you can, and only have it on half of the plant. Leave him there for atleast 2 hours. Make sure the temp of the water doesn't suddenly get very hot or cold.
That would be what I would do first. Did the vet say anything about Upper respiratory infection? What kind of antibiotics did he give you?

-Adam.
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Email Me!

I'm not sure on what kind of antibiotics or anything like that. I just know he was trying to kill "protazoa" in the intestines. When I mentioned her eyes... her unopened, swollen, purple colord eyes... he just went. Oh, she's dehydrated. End of story.

But... i mean... they're other signs right? Her crest is hard and firm... her poop (last i checked) was white and black, no yellow...

It's just ripping me apart inside, i really don't like not being able to help her. I'll post again tomorrow morn for an update.

I don't blame you. The receipt printout form the vet has to itemize everything he did: what medications, treating for what. You should have asked questions as he was (or before) he was doing something. I drive my poor vet crazy with all my questions, but it is so I can understand what the problems are.

Look over your printout and then if you have questions call him up and ask. The eye problem could be the beginning of any number of problems.

I am sorry both you and your cham went thru all of this. Have you looked in your area for another vet? Reptile specialists" see bearded dragons, iguanas and snakes more than any other herp and many do not understand or know the needs of chams. You can look at ARAV listings at link below.

Can you post some pictures of her?
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

i've actually been trying desperatly to take some pictures of her...

Does Chameleon skin obscure photos?

EVERY shot i take either gives back a picture of a glowing chameleon... or a 100% out of focus chameleon. Strange.
I'm trying though. Her eyes aren't like... nasty, gooey, sticky, etc. Just wrinkly and shut. And at this point i'm mostly worried about her falling off of something in her cage.

Blaghghghgh.

Hang in there sweetie. I was lucky...both the vets that I have seen (one for Pudge) and the most recent were very "non-intrusive". I had heard great things about the most recent...I was lucky to track him down. Not only does he treat, but owns a large variety of herps.

He spent alot of time talking to me and just holding Squiggy...looking at finer details.

When Pudge was really sick, the vet took her into the treatment room for her fluid and vitamin shots...I didn't have to watch. I trusted her bed-side manner though.

Sometimes, people in this world become a little frustrated with life in general...unfortunatley you and your cham got the raw end of this. I would speak my mind to this one, reminding him of a thing called "permission to treat".

See if you can't "rig" something up as a saftey net in case she does fall. Also, try to locate some terramycin ointment and apply to both eyes...try for a local treatment. Definately go with the extended misting....the meds given need to be circulated and water is the key.

Hang in there....I, and the rest of the gang are here for you.

Kris

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2.1 Black Labs Tucker, Raider and Lacey
1.0 Lepoard Gecko Kumar (Another lost pet RIP and party on with Harold!)
3.0 Horses Smoothie, Rocky and Bogey
1.0 Husbands (he puts up with me)
1.2 Kids-Trevor, Logan and Rylie
1.1 Ferrets Tank and Ellie (The fun fuzzies)
1.1 Veiled Chams Squiggy and Pudge (may she RIP)
0.1 Snowflake Cornsnake Lucky

Thanks guys, this really means alot to me.
I'll keep you posted and stuff, and aim for that Teramycin stuff.

*P.S. sorry for callin ya bro Internet anonomity at it's greatest

Cheers.

Its more likely the poor conditions you are shooting in. Heat lamps and florescent tubes are killer for the camera, and even worse when the two lights are combined. Cameras can pick up different light wavelengths that the human eye cannot see, so it changes the photo from what our eye sees. If you are using a point and shoot digital camera, your best bet is to:

-Turn on the flash (Dont leave it to automatic flash)
-focus the camera
-ask a friend to turn off the chamelon cage lights
-snap the photo quickly
-have the cage lights turned back on.

Or have a somone with a nicer manual camera come take some manually done photos for you.

..

His locale is Maroantsetra, you should be able to find it on a map of madagascar.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

really does sound like dehydration issue - for one. Please forgive me if you have already posted all of your setup info (likely has been requested - maybe even by me!) but can you run it by us again and/or link to a thread where you have already posted it?

I did look back at the one photo you linked on 5/23 and she looked great (except for her "pickled" pattern - lol!

ah- also found the thread with your setup info. Kinyonga made some comments on changes - did you make them?

Your temps seemed really high - basking OK if down to about 90, but they can be as low as 70-75 elsewhere in the cage. At night they NEED to drop 10 - 20 degrees.

How often are you dusting with each?

Did you get rid of the fountain? Major bacteria nursery! How do you provide her water? have you tired long, warm showers? Put her on a nice full plant, place it in the shower, turn on the shower to get temp right (do NOT have her under the water yet). Aim water toward wall and let the spray bounce onto plant. SLOWLY move the plant into the shower, if she begins to frantically flail her legs move her back out, but she should slowly acclimate. Put nice thick towels on the floor of tub in case she falls, but do NOT leave her just in case. Keep her in there fro 20 minutes-1/2 hour. Try doing this twice a day - she may learn to love them - Luna did!

Setting up a humidifier system can also be a BIG help. I have posted the setup questions again so you can give us an update. Btw, did the vet give her subcutaneous (sub-Q) fluids for hydration?

here are some of the most important questions (there are others, but these are enough for now)
1-Cage type: Size and type of cage (screen/glass)
2-Temps: - Basking area and lower in cage. How do you measure the temps in your setup? What is the temp in the warmest spot? The coolest spot? At night? During the day? You should be measuring the temp of the cham's skin or the surface of its current branch to get the most accurate reading. Do you leave any heat on at night? What is the temp in the room at night?
3-Lighting: - What brand is your UVB light? How long have you been using it? Do you leave any lights on at night? How long are your lights on each day? Where are the lights? on top?
4-Humidity: Do you have a humidity gauge? What is the range of relative humidity (RH) from lowest to highest? How long does it take to go from high to low? Do you use a humidifier? Do you live in the north or south (or other)?
5-Water: How often do you mist? Do you have a dripper? have you seen him/her drink?
6-Food : What is s/he eating? Where are you getting them? What are you feeding the feeders? Fresh veggies? Gutload? If you use a commercial gutload what is the brand? If you make your own what are the ingredients?
7-Supplements What and how often do you dust and with what (brand)?
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Woke up this morning to have one eye peering at me through some leaves. Other eye is still shut though.

Cage- 65 Gallon Screen Reptarium

Water- The cage is in my room, and i'm in there alot, when ever i pass by i usually mist it. Then 3-4 times a day i stand there for about 1-2 minutes and drrrrrrrench her plants. I've seen her drink before.

Lighting... I used the lighting that lllreptile provided in a set... 65 Gallon Reptarium (28x16.5x30", 24" UV Hood, 18" UV 5.0 Bulb, Clip Lamp, Heat Bulb, Large Tropical Vines, High Range Thermometer, 4 Quarts Green Moss,
Room temp at night- low- mid 70's

size: Cage Size - 28x16.5x30"

The actual bulbs are...http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/heat-bulbs-night-heat-bulbs-ceramic-bulbs/-/zoo-med-100-watt-day-bulb/
(I think) i know it's 100W

The day light is on from about 10 AM to 8 PM or so. The UV is on from about 9:30 to about 9PM ish.
In her cage I have a small ficus, and a small umbrella plant

I have stopped using a night bulb which brought the temperature 10-15 degrees down at night.

Fountain is gone, working to replace the space with a larger ficus

Crickets... bought from PetSmart, fed Flukers Gutload, apples, and potatoes.

Dusted with RepCal Calcium and Multivitamin every feeding...
(Is this the proper way of dusting? I put about a tip of a spoon's amount of each powder into a paper bag, load it with 15 or so crickets, then shake.) I pour them out into a small tupperware container and put them in the corner of her cage. She was eating this guys fine until both eyes shut. I have tried giving her some fruit and veges although she never really went for them. I have seen little bite marks off the ficus though.

I'm still a student, and we're on summer break now (score), she i'm constantly available to her for misting.

Humidity- I'm more or less clueless on this on, i don't have a gauge. ><

I live down in the south (Houston, Texas)

I'm off to go try the shower thing ya suggested.
Thanks guys.

I'd still like to know what he gave her in the injections and down her throat.

You said he was treating her for protozoa...treatment usually has to be repeated. Is he guessing or did he see protozoa in her feces? Are you supposed to take her back...or it that the end of it in the vet's eyes??

Proper treatment of parasites involves knowing which parasite is involved and the life cycle of that parasite. Without breaking the life cycle of the parasite re-infestation will most likely occur and all the deworming in the world will not help to eliminate the problem. (This includes keeping the cage clean to prevent re-infestation from feces in the cage.)

Re: watering...When I water my vieled and panther chameleons, I mist them until they start to drink and then continue until they stop or until they raise their head up into the air.

You mention "4 Quarts Green Moss" in the package you were sent...you didn't put it in the cage did you?

Is she pooping?

For lighting, I have a double florescent fixture that contains one ordinary florescent tube and one Repti-sun 5.0 tube. I also use a 60 watt regular incandescent bulb in a metal hooded ceramic fixture.

You said..."Crickets... bought from PetSmart, fed Flukers Gutload, apples, and potatoes"..I use a wide variety of greens and veggies to gutload my crickets.

Because my chameleons get very little direct sunlight...I dust with RepCal calcium several times a week for chameleons that aren't full grown yet...and twice a month with Rep-Cal calcium/D3 powder and twice a month with their vitamin powder. All the dusting is lightly done.

You said.."I put about a tip of a spoon's amount of each powder into a paper bag, load it with 15 or so crickets, then shake"...sounds okay to me.

You said..."I have tried giving her some fruit and veges although she never really went for them. I have seen little bite marks off the ficus though"...try putting a thin wedge of an apple part way into her mouth when its open. Once she gets a taste she might start eating it.

I still can't give you an answer or solution to what's wrong with your little chameleon....there are too many possibilities.

You said that one eye was open...maybe something the vet did will help?

BTW...like I said in another post....no offense taken about calling me "bro"...I expected that somebody might think I was male....after all kinyonga isn't a very feminine sounding name! (It means "chameleon" in Swahili.)

Her one eye opened, and she ate some crickets, sounds like an improvement. She looks really good now, just one eye is still shut tight. Really green, really pretty. I made a paint image of what her eye kinda-sorta looks like, i posted it as a reply to my original post.

She seems more alert, still kind of sluggish, but a definate improvment.

Glad to hear she's doing better! Let's hope she is soon 100%.

Exactly why you will rarely get a response of "Take it to a VET" as my reply to health queries. I feel the same way about my personal doctor. My children and myself only went to the doctor for conditions I couldn't address myself. (brain surgery, appendectomy, etc.) Now, 35 years later, with the vast amounts of information and personal experiences to draw from via the internet, a vet visit is a last resort for me. I'm not "anti-vet" or "anti-doctor" but I feel I have about as good a chance of treating my symptoms as they do. Good luck with your cham. I truly hope WHATEVER was done helps. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

I'm so sorry about your girl, I just hope the eye problem will pass. I know the terrrible unsettling feeling when one is sick

Certainly don't know what the problem is but yeah, try the terramycin, although both eyes closed seems there is more of a problem going on .

Let us know how she is!
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

An artist's rendition of what both her eyes look look...

http://img303.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled2be.png

Both digi cameras i have are down, and that's mostly what it looks like. Purply at the bottom, [bleep], and just kinda wrinkly and skin looking.

I'll get actual pics asap.