Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Recently, I have been giving my panthers anoles and they seem to love them. It is such a big meal and very nutritious for them. Before I feed the anole to them, I usually force feed the anole a waxworm or another type of worm. I also put some calcium or other vitamins on the outside of the anole, then I just put it in and wait a couple of mintues. The anole is usually so tired from fighting with me that it doesn't run too much in the cage, allowing it to be an easy target for the chameleon.

Oh geesh I get so upset when a lizard dies I can't imagine watching that, Hey I know many people do it, and in nature it happens, I'm not judging, just could not do it
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

Yeah, hard to get excited about this new feeder advice, isn't it?

I stick to the basics (crickets, worms, flies, moths, roaches... ) There are people in our herp club who keep anoles.

When it comes to feeding any reptile, I have a "no torturing the feeders" rule. This includes, pre-killed rodents for snakes, no pulling off legs of insects, no jamming worms down the throat of a lizard...

Exactly mate. I agree with a don't hurt any living thing attitude. I disagree with the idea of live feeding rodents to snakes. Just to be clear, I was very angry at the way the topic starter showed lack of compassion to the anole. I personally wouldn't dream of feeding lizards to any of my own lizards (I have 10 including 4 chameleons). On another chameleon forum someone there admitted to feeding his chameleons anoles as he lives in Spain but he didn't word it all in an offensive manner and that is the difference. I kept my opinion to myself that time. I have been reguarly looking at these forums for four years now but haven't felt the need to post until now.

Glad you decided to join in !

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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

Thank you and thanks for the e-mail too

Hey now. I know it sounds...er...against the 'ways' of a herper to feed an anole or some other small reptile to our chameleons, but to be honest, I was contemplating the idea myself. I decided against it becuase a lot of anoles are WC (meaning parasites, worms, ect), and I think I would break down from the guilt of indirectly killing an anole- I know, sad.

BUT, I do agree they add variety and an assortment of nutrients to a well balanced diet. It's certainly not vital, but the way I see it, an anole is just another feeder mouse going to the snakes, if you can understand that. ???
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Michele

I personally don't do it for several reasons. They are hard to feed in bulk, they are rather expensive for one meal and right now i have crickets all over my house...I don't want anoles all over the house. I ahve also heard that the bones are possibly hard for the cham to digest. I personally would never do it because I could not bring myself to kill a lizard like that. But I don't think name calling is necessary, and he has a point that snake keepers feed mice and rats to snakes. I couldn't bring myself to do that either.

-Adam.

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Email Me!

But how well would it go over to describe to a forum that you stuffed dog food down the throat of your rat and then threw the choking and bruised animal into the snake tank? Not well, I assure you.

Well, I'm sorry that you disagree with my feeding habits but you might be better suited to protest those snake keepers that feed their snakes mice and rabbits. What do you think chameleons do in nature? You can read in many published texts that chameleons often eat insects and even small VERTEBRATES including smaller lizards. Actually, in Madagascar larger chameleon species are known to predate on Panther Chameleons. We may not like it and by far I get no pleasure from contributing to the demise of a reptile, but in order to help keep my panthers happy and healthy, this is what I have found works for me. I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree with you.

We all have to make our own decisions on what we choose to feed. I mean I could not do it, but it is true that in the wild animals eat certain things. So some lizards prey on others. I have had anoles as pets and they are soooo cute I can't imagine feeding one off to another pet, but that is me. I love snakes but I will never have a large snake because I can't bring myself to feed mice and rats. Some people can. I have fed fish to fish and fish to snakes. That is just as sad but I can do it. Some people can't. This is kind of like the discussion Will and I had before. Everyone is different, and sometimes we may think that someone is mean or cruel because they are different than us. But we just have to allow people to be who they are and be who we are. I can feed f/t pinkies but not live, so I guess some people would think I was mean. It all comes down to what we can and can't or will and won't do!!

I think everyone who is a regular here will say that we have been in bad moods and said harsh things to others at times in regards to thier husbandry or lack there of, but don't call names.... it helps no one!!

So every snake owner is a horrible person aswell? You are ridiculous. Don't you know how rats, mice and rabbits are killed before feeding?

like many others here I could not do this and I do object when folks post pics of that sort of thing (thanks for not doing that . And, like others, I will not own a snake b/c I cannot feed a mammal to another animal.

I do think it is ridiculous that "scotland" joined the forum just to post this, but I wonder if your graphic description of "I usually force feed the anole a waxworm or another type of worm. I also put some calcium or other vitamins on the outside of the anole, then I just put it in and wait a couple of mintues" was part of his/her objection. For those of us who do keep tiny (and not so tiny) lizards it can be a hard thing to swallow - ok, no pun intended there

This topic comes up from time to time and, as pointed out, there are chameleons that actually eat other chameleons. Just those of us who CAN alter the natural habitat sometimes do.

All that said, the point about feeding anoles and them being loaded with parasites is something to consider. Not too many anole breeders out there unless for their own herps. Just something to consider

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Disagreement is fine.

Debate about morality of animal rights is great, as all intillectual debate is.

opinions are encouraged, even if they they are not the majority opinion.

name calling because of any of the above three things does not promote positive information sharing in any way.

so for those of you who do disagree with the treatment of the anoles, but expressed it in a mature manner... thank you for doing so

for those of you who think the treatment of the anoles was ok and expressed it in a mature manner... thank you for doing so.

ok, im done now.

Jeff

You must be a strict vegetarian. If you eat beef or pork what do you think you are you doing? You are feeding yourself a mammal. If you eat chicken or even eggs you are feeding yourself birds.

I was suprised to see how much controversy this thread has created. Is it really any different if a guy feeds his cham an anole than if a guy feeds himself a steak or slab of ribs?

Here, here. Unless you yourself are a dietary Saint, keep your negative judgements to your own self. That anole had it easy compared to the way animals die for human consumption.

A chameleons in the wild would not hesitate to eat another chameleon or anole in the wild, appropriately sized, as is shown clearly in Bill Love/Blue Chameleon Tour's candid wild herp photography. Why should their Captive counterparts not receive the same opportunities from time to time?

I don't think 'scotland' would be posting if the original message weren't, as was suggested 'gruesomely phrased'. It was clearly described, although bluntly put.

What makes an anole different from a feeder insect? Both have a nervous system that adequately feel pain. Both have instinctive behaviours- but not feelings or emotions. Both would be eaten in the wild.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

And I even forgot to add, since 'scotland' is against feeding snakes live rodents, he would prefer to have them thrown at a metal plate where they are paralyzed before being put into a bag, still alive, to be put into a freezer, still alive.

I've worked for the companies that move out hundreds of rodents each day prepared like this. I have also spent the longest night of the year in a South American Country (Christmas Eve, where all the Christmas food is prepared for the next mornings market to buy fresh) in a processing plant so to speak. That night I watched and photographed 100 cows and 400 swine pass through a primitive procedure, by a team of only 8 men in less than 10 hours.

Let me be completely honest with you... Dying alive by snake, or being rat-whacked, is far better than the torture that human food is put to all over the world. My experience was in South America, but that's not to say its done differently everywhere else. It's the same.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

not that it has anything to do with this topic, but I do not eat 2-, 4- or 6- legged or winged creatures.

As to Will's posts below, he is absolutely right in the way that human consumed food is "raised" - while alive as well as their way of death. It is often (99% of the time) horrific; and South America is no different than here. If you knew what the majority of the animals you eat are subjected to you might think twice, or not. I made a choice to not eat them (nearly 30 years ago).

But this is neither a thread about human consumed foods, animal rights advocacy or trying to influence anyone's lifestyle. As has already been noted I think it was the description that extended this thread. The lizard eating lizard topic comes up and is usually discussed by those who are interested in doing it or already do. those of us not interested steer clear. The topic of this thread gave no inkling as to what it contained so I am sure most read it.

OK, I'm done, too.
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

WOW...some heaving reading. Food...we all eat it. Humanity...we all need it. Choices...we all have them. Opinions...we all express them.

Cheers.

Kris
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2.1 Black Labs Tucker, Raider and Lacey
1.0 Lepoard Gecko Kumar (Another lost pet RIP and party on with Harold!)
3.0 Horses Smoothie, Rocky and Bogey
1.0 Husbands (he puts up with me)
1.2 Kids-Trevor, Logan and Rylie
1.1 Ferrets Tank and Ellie (The fun fuzzies)
1.1 Veiled Chams Squiggy and Pudge (may she RIP)
0.1 Snowflake Cornsnake Lucky

BTW, Brown and Knight anoles are exotic invasives down here where I live and in my opinion 'here' should be eradicated. Why? Because they have decimated the populations of native green anoles through competition. That would suck if there was only one kind of lizard, wouldn't it.

If you have them as a pet, Great, enjoy and love them, but please do not let them go.

For example, I have and love my cat, but I trap cats and have them either adopted or put to sleep because people (the problem) who let their cats outdoors kill wildlife. Now, killing rats may be good, but not birds or native wildlife. I have actually had a neighbor's cat kill a cham. No, I'm not a inhumane person, just an understanding one.

How does everyone feel about throwing a cham, a behaviorly roaming animal into a 2x2x3 cage or a bleak four walled room? If you think your cham is climbing the screen to get out to be with and see you, your deluding yourself.

Remember, one individuals pet is another's food...ever been to Central America, for example, where they eat iguanas or Asia where they eat insects and whales. Even I do not like the whale thing...

I am sure the invertebrate people would freak if they knew we gave our bugs a last supper.

I don't mean to offend anyone, just open your consiousness alittle and stay respectful.

We are all hypocrates btw, it just depends upon your accepted level of hypocracy.

If you all put your emotions aside, I think there are some health issues that could be looked into by using lizards as feeders. Isn't someone doing a Master's in herpetology here??
I think it would be fascinating research and helpful study for hobbyists.

1. Parasite transfer?
2. Nutrition concerns, good or bad
3. Variety, good or bad

Michael

This is an interesting thread! I haven't posted on this forum until today, although I've been on other Kingsnake forums. A couple of weeks ago I visited my sister in FL, where my kids had a great time catching anoles and letting them go. We only saw three green anoles the whole week. We visted a butterfly house, and saw a brown anole in a container among the caterpillars and cocoons. The guy said he caught them to feed his ribbon snake, b/c they do huge damage to his butterflies and moths. He doesn't catch the green ones. Kind of repellent, but it made sense in a way...Interesting question about the parasite thing, though.

I've told my son no snakes, I can't feed mammals to a reptile, either. JMO...