Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...and what do I see?

3 wild caught malis. In a 5 gallon aqaurium, yep 5 gallon or less. The humidity is at about 85%, temp at about 85 degrees and their only food is a few crickets running around the cage. They are all bone thin and living on walnut bedding.

The District manager was in the store and I let him know about it, but I highly doubt anything will be done about them.

In the terrairium underneath the uros were about 15 bone thin starving leopard geckos in a 10 gallon aquarium, humidity at about 80% on bed-a-beast.

Sometimes I really hate going to pet stores.

Not defending the store or chain, but I thought that Petsmart sold only CB uros. I was told this, anyway, from someone outside of PetSmart. Bruce happened to come from PetSmart and actually had the breeders name and contact info available when I purchased him.

JR
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BRUCELIZARD.COM Curious? Thought So.

In general the petsmart by me has been very receptive to things I have told them about Uro care. They were feeding iceberg salad mix and when I pointed out the nutritional value of it and gave them a better option and a care sheet I have noticed that subsequent uros seem to be getting better treatment. However I think that this is very store dependent. It does break your heart to see such things, but there is such little help you can give other than to educate the store!!

Elizabeth
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1.0 Mali Uro Archimedes (May he rest in peace)
0.0.1 Egyptian Uro Zuberi Mosca Khu (Mosca)
0.0 Fish
0.1 Sulcata Minnie
1.1 Iguanas Flik and Loki
0.1 Newfoundland Jasmine (RIP)
0.1 Feline Winter
Indiana & Wisconsin

yeah, we're only allowed to stock and sell captive bred animals.

I suggest that you report them to the human society .

Having worked as a cruelty officer for a large "human society", I can tell you that their efforts seldom trickle down to enforcing husbandry needs at pet stores unless it involves cats, dogs, etc. Generally speaking, the boards of directors don't want to finance efforts to help the "lesser" creatures. I walked out in utter frustration. But, who knows, it never hurts to try.
We had a similar episode at our local Petsmart. They had an obvious wc mali, diet nothing but cabbage, temps & lighting all screwed up. We offered a care sheet & our offer to help, only to be rebuffed with defensiveness. They "knew what they were doing!" Things got highly charged but, I can tell you this; this PetnotsoSmart hasn't carried another Uro for sale since!

Thats terrible that the Human Society wont do anything . Makes me want to picket PetsMart and other Pet stores like them . Its sad to think they are only out for a buck .I know I will never buy anything from them .

No, that's not gonna work. Your best bet is a continuing dialogue with these commercial knotheads. Stay after them but, they need to know that you know what you're talking about. There's too many PETA nuts running around out there & they're alert to that. I doubt it's nationwide but, we see a much improved situation at Petco & they seldom carry high-maintainance animals. PetsoStupid seems to have a more cavalier philosophy & just offer what's available at the moment.
My advise is to soft peddle it & offer constructive advise in a very non-confrontational manner. Befriend them, if you will. Nothing else is likely to help your (our) cause.

Not to defend petsmart (even though I work at one). They aren't cavalier at all about what they sell. We only choose animals that regular people can take care of, that's why we only have 'easier' species to choose from anyways when we order them. Unlike petco, who can sell savanna monitors, iguanas, etc. etc. we don't sell anything that we can't offer supplies for for its entire life (so nothing that will grow out of a 75 gallon enclosure, nothing that is in any way a real threat to its caretakers, nothing that is hard to find food for, etc.)

The only species I have seen that are offered that are a bit harder to take care of are the uros and veiled chameleons, and my store is not going to be selling either of those anymore due to problems we have had in the past with them. We stick to beardeds, leos, small species of mediteranean tortoises, treefrogs, etc. Animals that are fairly easy to care for by our target market (which seems to be those that are just starting out in reptiles).

But it is entirely up to the store if it wants to sell chameleons and uromastyx, however, the policy is that they must always be captive bred. I can only go by what my store does, and what the others around here do.

Actually I used to work for petsmart. For almost 4 years. I have seen everything possible there, and in the end was finally why I quit. I love working with animals, but when the real policy of the company is to make as much money as possible with no regard to pet care, I could care less about working there anymore.

I have seen baby cockatiels get sick and die because the store directors didnt want to pay the vet bills. I have seen a cockatoo have a hole burned thru its crop because petsmart uses hot pots to boil the water(as required by their policies and procedures, and highly enforced by the store directors, regional pet care managers and district managers).I know for a fact that they carry wild caught uros. I have recieved the invoices that said "wild caught". Generally the only captive bred uros in stores are babies, less then 4 inches long. I have seen maybe a total of 10 wild caught uros, they are always 7-8 inches long and mainly unhealthy looking upon arrival to the stores.

I'm sorry you've had those problems at your store, but the store I work at doesn't have those kinds of problems. We recieve only animals that are (supposed to be) captive bred. The uros we have had are only about 4" long when they arrive, because they are hatchlings, but I do think that they are trying to sell some wild caught as captive bred on some occasions.

Let me ask you this though, how long ago did you quit?

At the Petsmart by me they have a mali uro in maybe a 5 gallon they aren't feeding him crickets or anything like that,just greens.The humidity is about 20 percent but the temp was 85 degrees,I also said something to the manager and he said he would change,I haven't been back so don't know if he did most likely not.The mali was also very thin,it's very disturbing going to pet stores anymore.I just don't get it?

they're not really supposed to have crickets as a part of their staple diet. Crickets are best kept as snacks and fed maybe once a week.

Studies have shown that in the wild uromastyx will only consume extremely small portions of insects, usually ants or similarly sized, and very few. They are herbivores, primarily.

You did the right thing by telling them about it, but keep on them. Since it's a chain store, some of their stores probably don't put much thought into who they hire for positions in pet care, and that's when you end up with problems.

and hearing this makes me absolutely sick.

I don't understand (having worked at one now) why...or how other petsmarts can get away with that!!! I mean, we run things well at the one I work at. Any live animal that is either sick, looks like it may be sick (or even just stressed) or has been returned goes into quarantine (the 'quiet room') for treatment and assessment from a qualified vet. They pretty much have to do this because if something dies, everyone has to know about it, and someone is likely to get fired if it wasn't in quarantine by the time it passed. Even with fish, you can't just scoop up dead fish at the end of the night, you have to log how many died, what species, etc. etc. and it's the same for all animals. Honestly, I love working at this store, and I'm proud that I work for such a responsible store.

However, I will say that before I started working there, they had an issue with some baby CB malis that they had in. The display cages are poorly designed, and would not fit a large enough bulb to keep the uros hot enough, so they had to take the top off the cage so they could fit a good sized basking bulb in to get a basking spot of at least 120. The tanks are about a foot tall, and some how the little uros managed to get out of the tank, and then climb down the display cages (about a 5' drop). They found one alive, and he isn't doing too well, but since I've started working there, I've been helping out and I am sure he is going to make it. They were out in the store for a month before they were found, and sadly the other one didn't make it

Just a sad reminder that I do work in a large retail establishment, and bad things can happen.

I still don't get how a petsmart can get away with keeping its animals in such horrible condition. I think if anyone tried to fit one mali in a 5 gallon tank they would have to answer to an unhappy manager.

Also, the chain isn't allowed to sell wild-caught. How they got away with that at the store you were in, I don't know.

They are allowed to sell wild caught lizards. I know this for a fact. You can find the picture tags for them in your store if you look around.

And the newer tall terraiums you are talking about are the worst reptile habitats ever created that I have seen in any petstore. You cant put really hot bulbs in the lower copartments cause it causes the ones above them to get WAY too hot.

I most definitely agree with you,those tall 8-10 cages side by side and one on top of the other are horrible!It is a big chain they can afford to get bigger cages for the reptiles and not setup like the ones they have now,I mean come on they aren't hurting for money.They need to set them up like the fish tanks,bigger single tanks arranged on shelves with some space in between for air flow.The store by me I've never seen such small cages 5 gallons at the most!!!The mali in there looks so unhappy and unhealthy I got so pissed off I started shaking,this is after I had talked to a manager a week before about it.There really needs to be some regulations on this subject.It's stressful enough for the animals being in such a high traffic area as it is!

Our local Petsmart tries hard, but the generic caging makes it almost impossible to properly house most species. They should dump all their aesthetically pleasing (for humans) caging and install cages that are animal friendly. I told them they could call me whenever they had a question. I am no expert, but I know more than they do and have faxed or hand delivered them information on many species. Ours do not carry uros, I was told they were to "exotic." They also claim all of their animals are cb, which I know is not true. I went in a few months ago and they had four greek tortoises, the recent imports with the salmon color on them. There was a sign on the cage that said not for sale. I asked why and the guy said they had worms. In their defense, they took them to the vet and they were not put up for sale for over 6 weeks. I used to complain about another pet shop constantly as they had many if their herps in 12" x 12" cubes. I even stayed one day and forced them to rehouse a uro, only to have it die in my hands as they were redoing the cage. They no longer carry reptiles, thank goodness. We can only try to educate them, and not support them by purchasing their animals.

Pam
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2.3 varanus acanthurus brachyurus (Dorado, Oro, Dora, Freckles & Amarillo)
1.1 varanus acanthurus acanthurus (Tabasco & Sprite)
1.1 u. macfadyeni (Amani & Abeba)
1.2 u. ornata (Husani, Zari, & Bintu)
1.1 u. ocellata (Zuhri & Ashai)
1.2 xenagama taylori (Asad, Ayana & Ayan)
1.1 hyla chrysoscelis (Pudge & Squirt)
Herps Are Awesome!

maybe it's more of a district regulation than a national one, but our store is not allowed to sell wild caught reptiles. It says that in the all the literature they cram down our throats.

However, I wouldn't put it past them to sell some WC lizards anyways. I mean, I have even talked to my manager about it (who insists that all reptiles in the store are CB), because we got in two russian tortoises the other day that seem to be in good health, but are almost fully grown. If they are captive bred, why would the breeder keep them around long enough to become full-size? (which usually takes a few years).

I have to have a talk with them about the caging situation too, as some of the cages are ridiculous (the ones we keep the frogs and very small lizards are about 5 gallons, then the next row down is roughly 10 gallons per tank, then the next row down from that...actually I think it's the next two rows, are about 20-30 gallons, and at the bottom they have one large tank roughly 75 gallons, so they aren't really cramping them too badly). The problem with the cages is just that they are not built for reptiles, they are built for humans.

I am also planning on talking to my manager about the new tortoises that came in, because they put one of the russians (that just came out of quarantine...the other one is still in quarantine until it starts eating better) in with the greek tortoise, and there are many things wrong with this. For one, they could infect the greek tortoise with whatever the russian might have, since he was only quarantined for about a week. Two, they are both males(!). Three, the cages is way too small for one adult tortoise to live in, let alone two. I am hoping that they are able to sell all of the tortoises, and after that I'm going to have to talk to them about the fact that they don't have any cages suitable for tortoises of that size and they are obviously not being sold quickly enough to be able to keep them in such small accomadations.

So obviously, it's a pain working in a chain store, but I am trying to get some of this stuff worked out in this particular store. I always have long talks with people before they buy any reptiles or other pets.

The one by me doesn't have any bigger tanks for them just that 4-5 high and 2 wide all in one cages which are 5 gallons at the most.They have rows and rows of their fish in seperate tanks I don't know why they can't do that for the reptiles also.The mali doesn't look very healthy!It's sad to say the least.

Let me take the time to thank you for your efforts. Yes, the two big chains have issues when it comes to the animals they carry. Yes, I'm sure some of the animals are kept in deplorable conditions(I had a very confident individual who was trying to sell me an emaciated, mite infested Blue Tongued Skink at one of the PHX area Petsmarts insist that they are strictly insectivores). It sounds, however, like you are really trying to make a difference by educating your managers and the customers. Even if it is a small scale local effort against a nationwide corporation, at least you're trying.

Kudos.
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
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3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
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