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My adult male thayeri has started to show lumps that look and feel like fatty deposits. They feel almost fluid filled but he is in top notch shape otherwise. Does anyone have experience with this or could anyone shed some light on my situation? Is it genetic and such? Thank you for ay reply.

Definitely rolls of fat there, I can clearly see the vertical creases in the skin. A few questions for you.....

What does his diet consist of; what has he been raised on up to this point?

How frequently is he fed?

How much does he eat at each feeding?

Has he been a naturally active snake, or is he very mellow and relaxed?

Without answers to these questions or a full body photo I would say that he definitely needs a reduced calorie diet and possibly less frequent feedings, or feedings of a lesser volume so he has time to burn off excess calories. They can get fat very easily once they reach the young adult stage and their growth rate slows if they have a naturally hearty appetite and have a relaxed nature about them. Let him get hungry enough to become active before feeding and possibly switch him to a less fatty diet. Nothing genetic is directly involved, it’s simply a situation where he is taking in more energy than he is able to utilize efficiently and he is building up fat reserves.

Just like you and I, if we were to eat too much or a consistently high fat diet and not get enough exercise, we would get a little chunky!

Mike

What does his diet consist of; what has he been raised on up to this point? How frequently is he fed? How much does he eat at each feeding?

-Every 5-6 days he eats 1-2 rat fuzzies. He use to eat mice hoppers but i recently got a deal on rat fuzzies so he has been on those the past 4 months.

Has he been a naturally active snake, or is he very mellow and relaxed?

-He is a lazy snake. Interesting though, my female eats the same amount and shows no fatty deposits, yet. They exist only in the last 2/3 of his body. I've never had this problem before.

Could you suggest a diet regiment to get him back to normal?

Thanks Mike!

You’re welcome, and I’m no expert but I will share what I know.

Considering that your male is the couch potato type I would guess that is his biggest problem and it sounds like he is getting a lot to eat for an inactive snake. You just need to limit his intake however you see fit, without seeing exactly what he’s’ been eating and how big/healthy the rat fuzzies are, it’s pretty hard to judge. If your mice and rats fall within the average, chunky hopper mice and the average fuzzy rats fall within about the same percentage range with regard to fat content. Anything above or below the hopper mice/fuzzy rat category and rats generally contain a considerably higher percentage of fat by weight. Rats have a higher percentage of protein in all but the pink mouse category, where mice contain more protein up to about 3 grams in weight, about large pink size. Generally it’s considered that mice are a slightly more balanced diet than would be a steady diet of rats. A lot of people do use rats to put weight on their animals quickly and it works, but it doesn’t mean that it is healthy weight.

If it were my snake, initially I would maintain the same feeding interval and limit him to about half of what he has been eating if that were possible, say only one rat fuzzy instead of letting him eat his fill. If necessary I would stretch out his feeding schedule to something like every 7-10 days to limit his intake over a period of time. I would make him work a little for his meal and wait a little longer, long enough for him to get good and hungry and get up off of his BarcaLounger and roam his enclosure to burn off a little energy. Ultimately I would switch him back to mice when I ran out of rat fuzzies.

It sounds like you already know this, just keep in mind that thayeri aren’t designed to be extremely thick and bulky snakes and an overweight condition happens easily when restricted to an enclosure, the particular individual is inactive in general, and it loves to eat. A fat, lazy thayeri is an unhealthy animal that may not produce well, if at all.

Mike

Thanks for your input Mike. Based on your reply, i figure to feed him 1 fuzzy rat every feeding cycle (5-6 days) for about two more cycles then switch to 1 fuzzy rat every other feeding cycle (10-12 days, my yearlings get a small meal offering every 5-6 days). After that, no more fuzzy rats for my little beefcake; how embarrassing of me...

You're welcome again.

There's nothing to be embarrassed about and I apologize if I made you feel that way, I certainly didn’t intend to. We all like our snakes to be well fed, you just happen to have one that doesn’t use a lot of energy which possibly is a good thing. Feel lucky that you have a mature young male that is always interested in eating a good meal, particularly this time of year when many of them stop feeding for breeding season. And I would be willing to bet that he is a very placid and relaxed male that is a real joy to have around! You will get him back into shape, no problem. And once you do, he can even loose those wrinkles eventually if you can keep him toned up, but it will take a while.

Your feeding plan sounds like a good one to me and he should be back in top shape in no time. Now that you know what he looks like when he is too heavy it will be easy for you to regulate his weight. Something to watch for; when they are curled up at rest, the inside curves of their body should be very smooth with no wrinkling at all. Any tendency to fold or wrinkle tells you that they are getting a bit too heavy.

Great looking pattern on that male by the way. I have one enough like him to be his twin brother. In fact, my male is also a very casual kinda guy!

Mike

Naw you didn't make me feel embarrassed. I made I embarrassed but a little embarrassment is better than compromising the health of my animals.

He's a Chris Baubel stock. Here is a pic of him as a baby. The orange ones look superb as babies but seem to dull a lot quicker than the buckskin's with highlights. He's one of my favorites though and will be breeding next year to the female buckskin you see in the other pic (baby pic). Could have bred them this year but i wanted to give them one more year. They are not clutch mates.

Hope you have a productive season.

I remembered you had thayeri produced by Chris and recognized that male. Below are fresh photos of my 2004 male, thayeri5m. This guy’s orange actually improved quite a bit until the darker shadows began washing in. Unusual colors but interesting. Out in the sun he looks pretty sharp. This guy is about as slow as they come when meal time rolls around but he’s consistent and never misses a meal, it just takes him quite a while to finish the job. Like your male he’s also a very slow mover, a very relaxed and pleasant snake but he does get active before his next meal. Neat snakes.

Mike

Another 2004 Baubel production.....

I'm pretty sure we have brothers!

Here is a great male from that same clutch but the person in line before me got to him first that year~~~~~~~~~:>
.

YEP! We definitely have brothers here. Cool patterns aren't they?!!

Do you have photos of the entire clutch from that year?

Mike

Those are the only two pics i saved since they were the ones i was interested in. If you cannot get these pic's off this string i can send them to you.

I've started to keep a family tree now on the thayeri I buy from others and all the possible brother and sister pics + parents i can get; like i have the only milksnake phase from a clutch of Dan's (serpents online) white leonis'. Every one of her brothers/sisters were white leonis. I'm curious to see what she produces when crossed with another line. Maybe nothing special but had i not archived her brothers/sisters i might not have been able to show the origin of her offspring morphs. Plus it's just plain cool to look over.

Got 'em, thanks.

It's a good thing you are doing and I'm a fanatic about photo record keeping myself. And you're absolutely right, it's very cool to be able to reference, I use and enjoy it all the time. I save everything I can get my hands on.

So you have the white milksnake female Lmt2005d01? That's a great snake and you won't be sorry you have her; anything she produces will be very special as far as I'm concerned. How is she doing? You should post a fresh photo of her; I would love to see it! I have a Vermilya thayeri obsession.

Mike

She's a pig and i'm not a good shot yet with the new camera but here she is. I knew her white was going to speckle but i don't mind. Nice reds though...

She looks fantastic! She's getting some really nice red on her head, should be a great looking adult. And not a thing wrong with that pic, thanks for taking the time to share that. I don't mind a little speckling either, it's the nature of the beast and what's important is what she is capable of producing in her offspring. Her mother is clean as a whistle and your female should be able to produce some every bit as clean and speckle-free at some point.

Mike

very unique and awesome looking thayeri. Both of you need to make some babies.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

WOW!
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Dan
www.SerpentsOnline.com

I'd love to see one of your Great Whites with this pattern.....

I sent you a reply and attached full size, full body shot photos but your mailbox is full.

I dont worry about timing meals too much.

I simply wait til the snakes are prowling around in the evening. After a meal, I wont see them for 3-4 days. Then I give them 2-3 days of prowling/hunting for food. then I feed.
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1 Eastern Blue Tongue Skink
2 Tarahumara Mountain Kingsnakes - Knoblochi
1 Thayer's Kingsnake - Thayeri
2 Golden Greek Tortoises
1 Pyxie Frog - 14 years old

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep that in mind when i start to cut him back a bit.