Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been told that mice offer more for monitors then rats and the same thing for snakes only backwards... any truth in that? also is any normal thawed raw ground turkey good for an argus? and how much should he get a week? thanks.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

The only major difference from mice to rats nutritionally is size. If comparing two similarly sized animals, then the right will be a young'n and not yet have a fully developed skeleton; and will have less calcium content. Not much of an issue if feeding a varied diet.

Ian

I disagree with you on this one. I could careless if an adult rodent has more calicum then younger ones. The reality is, I have raised many many monitors of pinkies without supplimentation. They grew fast and sturdy. I could not ask for more. So whether one has more calicum or not is not a concern. Pinkies and fuzzies seem to have more then enough.

Same goes with rats vs. mice. Both work. My suggestion would be, go fix something that needs fixing. hahahahahahaha

I do not understand why people are concerned with what is best, between two good things, when they are weak(not best) at so many other things. Again, work of fixing things that are not good, I am sure there are many. Cheers

thanks for the replys, also is the store bought ground turkey as good as any? just mix it up with some rep cal? I know their are some sites that explain how to use it, just wanted to ask on here. thanks again.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

I do not use turkey in any form. I see no reason to use it. Oh wait, I should have some frozen in the freezer, just in case I run out of whole food items. Wait again, I have frozen whole food items in there, in case I run out of non frozen food items.

I do not recomend it.

What I find odd about this is. So many people ask about the Ideal this, and perfect that. Yet, where it does make a difference, whole food items vs. perpared processed food, they want to use what is clearly not the best, Odd.

Put in context, the zoo that designed and popularize turkey, do so to replace 100's of pounds of rodents. So there is indeed reason to think about this approach. But you and others are only replacing a few ounces. Its better to stick to the real thing. Cheers

ok, Ya I just was thinking about getting some incase I run out, but then again If you think at all about it, you really should never get that low where the chance of running out is a problem. just wondering why so many zoo's use it, but that must be a $ issue. Also I still cant beleive that I still see ad's running on KS where sellers still say 'feeding great on crickets and canned dog food'... crazy.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

Its kinda like this. If you import a sav for $5 and sell it for $8, then if you have to feed it, you will not make any money what so ever. So they normally don't, then the shop that gets it, paid $8 and sell them for $40, but because they sell it for so much more, they have to hold it for longer periods. So they have to feed it. Every time you fed it, you lose money. So you feed it the cheapest possible thing. Its really not that hard to understand.

What you and others fail to understand is, you look at that and think they are making a good profit. But that is not the case. They also have to pay wages, electric, fuel costs, etc. So they are hoping to make a profit, but its not common to make a huge profit. Who makes the most is the first guy, because he usually resells the monitors as soon as they are unpacked.

Years ago, I bought some indo monitors from importers. They would tell me that when the monitors crap its going to really stink. But not to worry, its only the dogfood they feed them. hahahahahahaha absolutely true story. Cheers

Ya man, I understand what your saying, make sense... just hard to beleive people wont just give up on selling animals that are so cheap and hard to make a profit on such as a sav. also you would think people like that would be able to support their own mouse 'production' which would also be cheap... I guess their are all different ways to look at it and we could go back and fourth over and over. I am sure you have been over this many times before seeing as how much you post on here. Thanks for your input.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

Oh ya and the original question I has was basically just asking if there is any nutritional difference between rats and mice. I would think there is because of how many people say rats are better for most snakes. I remember a few people telling me that mice are better for monitors, and Yes I know not to believe everything people tell you so that is why I asked on here. Just less then a month ago I received a large order of mice (for argus) and rats for (boas) and was just wondering about the above question while ordering.

It seems to me that the questions was answered mostly by the explanation of the size/development stage difference of mice and rats.... So if that is the only difference then my questions is answerd.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

Disagree all you want I wasn't saying one was better to feed than the other, or that there was a measureable problem with one or the other. The difference is there, whether it matters is another thing which you so quickly stated it doesn't.

Ian

Who cares if one has more or not, if both have more then enough?

No offense, this and rats vs. mice are both silly questions. People are trying to come up with some material to educated themselves to make better decisions. The problem here is, the question is dumb. Even if one had more calicum per gram(which is debatable) or was more nutrious per gram(which is also debatable) in both of these cases, they are all suitable foods. They are all better then most other food items. So the question should be change and become a better more important question.

If your still asking about these then, maybe a better question is, which is handier, which is more appealing to the monitor, which is less expensive, easier to find, which stores longer in the freezer. Or many other Real important questions.

Or don't worry about this and try to figure something out that is a problem, and there are many. Cheers

just a question that came up... no offense intended at all, Just had a few people tell me that and it didnt make much sense to me so I asked here. I dont why anyone would talk any offense, its just an online fourm. thanks again.
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0.1.0 BCI, 3 yr old
0.0.1 Ridge Tail Monitor
0.0.1 ArgusXflavi Cross monitor
0.0.1 Leoperd Gecko, Juvi (My girlfriends)

Heres the problem. Many of you, you included, are learning about monitors. You do not "know" how to take care of them. You only have heard how to take care of them. So you are asking and discussing things. No problem here, that is great.

So you listen to other beginers and discuss things like Mice vs. rats. Again no problem. Then you discuss which one is more nutrious. Then you make decisions based on that. The problem is. You talking about heresay, as only someone said, this and that, its not based on real information. Again no problem.

So here I am, someone who is not a beginer, and has experience with these things. I can only offer the fruit of my experience.

In this case, both are great. Not both are fine, both are amoung the food items that have PRODUCED the best longterm results. REALTIME results, not list of ingredients, real results. WHICH ONE WORKS THE BEST. THEY BOTH WORK BETTER THEN MOST OTHER FOODS. hahahahahahahahahaha

So I can only say something like, WHY on earth don't you work on other weaknesses in your husbandry. Or change the discussion to, which is easier to use, more available, or cleaner, smells less, easier to store, or many many other aspects that reflect your requirements. As for the monitors, if they can swallow a rat or mouse, its great.

Remember we all have our own way of doing things. And I have to feel my approach is important, only in that there are so few that are successful as I am. So what is it that I do that makes me have such success? If there were lots and lots of people having such success, then my approach would not need to be mentioned.

Many people say this and that and the other, but few people understand I am successful because I follow simple troubleshooting techniques. I fix whats broken. Not whats not broken. That is, I identify and work on my husbandrys weaknesses. If I ever achieve a level of not having weaknesses, then I will work on improving my strenghts.

IF you think about it. If something is a strenght, then why improve it, until it becomes your weakness. See what I mean.

So, I have experience, my experience forces me to say this. Don't worry about mice vs. rats, or pinkies not having enough calicum. All of these are great, IF the rest of your husbandry meets the minimum. Reach the bare minimum in other areas first.

Lastly, the only offense is, the monitors are suffering while you discuss needless subjects. But I guess that would be your concern and not mine. Cheers