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I've decided to move my remaining BRB's into more naturalist vivariums and I have a substrate question. I have always used newspaper substrate or aspen with a sphagnum moss hide box. I'm thinking about using ground coconut in the new vivariums but I've read that the ph is too low creating a very acidic substrate. I was wondering if anyone knows what other substrate could be mixed to increase the ph? I appreciate any help I can get on this.....I've looked around online and can't seem to get anywhere..

Thanks, Chris O
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

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signature file edited 3/23/06; contact an admin.

Chris,
....I have used the ground coconut for yearlings and young aduls. I found that the snakes did fine with it but every time I pulled a snake out of the cage a little of the substrate came with the snakes and on my hands and made a mess on the floor. The coconut also comes in chips and larger chunks and I think they are ideal substrates and are not messy like the ground stuff. I talked to a man at the Daytona Expo who buys large amounts of coconut husk and sells it to the reptile supply and garden supply businesses. He said the Ph of unprocessed coconut husks is near neutral. I think it can become acidic if you keep it in a cage too long with snakes urinating on it. If you soak and rinse the chunks about once a week it will dissolve the acidic urates out and you can put the chunks back in the cage wet and they will keep the humidity up for quite awhile. I have my Diamond Jungle crosses and Black Milksnakes on the chunks and the subsrate is over a year old. I spot clean as required and soak and rinse the coconut chunks about once a month. BRBs produce more urine than these snakes and it would need soaking and rinsing more often.
Jeff

>>I've decided to move my remaining BRB's into more naturalist vivariums and I have a substrate question. I have always used newspaper substrate or aspen with a sphagnum moss hide box. I'm thinking about using ground coconut in the new vivariums but I've read that the ph is too low creating a very acidic substrate. I was wondering if anyone knows what other substrate could be mixed to increase the ph? I appreciate any help I can get on this.....I've looked around online and can't seem to get anywhere..
>>
>>Thanks, Chris O
>>-----
>>www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
>>Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing
>>
>>____
>>
>>signature file edited 3/23/06; contact an admin.

Jeff,
Thanks, that is very helpful.

Chris
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

...when you have it ready for viewing.

If you soak and rinse the chunks about once a week it will dissolve the acidic urates out and you can put the chunks back in the cage wet and they will keep the humidity up for quite awhile.

Jeff,

There are two things that concern me about this technique, although I like the sound of it!

1. Uric acid isn't very water soluble. You can only dissolve 1 gram in 15 liters of water. Therefore soaking the uric acid crystals in water isn't going to remove much nitrogenous waste from the substrate.

Furthermore, the urates that do dissolve will be drawn into the chips (albeit at very low concentrations) along with any water they absorb. In fact, over time the urate concentration in the chips will probably increase, since the water soaking in will be uric acid saturated and won't be removing any, just bringing more in.

2. Not only will urates be soaking into the chips, but soaking it like this will dissolve any remaining specks of fecal material and the associated coliform bacteria deep into the substrate with the water it is taking in. You may actually be making it dirtier by soaking it?

Just some food for thought.

Now if you added some sort of disinfectant to the soak that you could later rinse out/detoxify, it would be better, but the uric acid issue won't be resolved.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Chris,
....You are right about the insolubility of uric acid. Reptiles and some birds produce an enzyme called urate oxidase which makes the uric acid water soluble. I am not sure just what happens to the enzyme after reptiles excrete uric acid but when cleaning the dried residue in cages it does dissolve fairly well with tap water. You may be right that when rinsing substrate I may only be making it look nice rather than effectively cleaning it.
Jeff

>>If you soak and rinse the chunks about once a week it will dissolve the acidic urates out and you can put the chunks back in the cage wet and they will keep the humidity up for quite awhile.
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>There are two things that concern me about this technique, although I like the sound of it!
>>
>>1. Uric acid isn't very water soluble. You can only dissolve 1 gram in 15 liters of water. Therefore soaking the uric acid crystals in water isn't going to remove much nitrogenous waste from the substrate.
>>
>>Furthermore, the urates that do dissolve will be drawn into the chips (albeit at very low concentrations) along with any water they absorb. In fact, over time the urate concentration in the chips will probably increase, since the water soaking in will be uric acid saturated and won't be removing any, just bringing more in.
>>
>>2. Not only will urates be soaking into the chips, but soaking it like this will dissolve any remaining specks of fecal material and the associated coliform bacteria deep into the substrate with the water it is taking in. You may actually be making it dirtier by soaking it?
>>
>>Just some food for thought.
>>
>>Now if you added some sort of disinfectant to the soak that you could later rinse out/detoxify, it would be better, but the uric acid issue won't be resolved.
>>-----
>>Chris Harrison
>>San Antonio, Texas

I was given a few bags of shredded coconut bark at the last show i attended. I'm using it in one of my cages right now. I like it a lot because of the light brown, naturalistic appearance. I haven't heard anything about low pH but maybe I can test it. That would be interesting to see.

The only thing I don't like about it is the cost. This was free so I'll use it up but you can pick up a red cypressr or western fir mix at the hardware store in bulk for a lot less. It has a very nice red appearance and I haven't had problems with any snakes being kept on it.

If I get the chance, i'll test the pH of some of the coconut bark I have and let you know.
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike,
That would be great. If you decide to test it I would be interested in knowing what you discovered.

Thanks, Chris
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing