Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i remember he was a ready to eat guy that morning instant mouse attack.maybe he ate before the mouse was dead and the mouse got a lucky bite internally?poor snake he was turning into a real looker maybe the pic will show it> C

man that is a real bummer, that's a nice snake and the head pattern is a plus (i got a thing for head patterns on brooksi)

the snake looks normal as ever, no dehydration or anything

again man sorry for your loss...

~Z
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Royal Blue ReptileZ
Home of Bklyn's Finest Brooksi

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signature file edited 4/22/06; contact an admin.

I have heard of two cases like this. My good friend had a 19 foot burm. It regurged a rabit for no apparent reson (it had never done that before). That night it died. On necropsy, the vets found that his esophagus was sliced from the stomach to the neck. The rabits teet had caught and torn it as it came back up.

At the vet clinic I work at, someone brought in a corn snake that regurged and was thrashing and writhing around. It died in the waiting room. He said he couldn't pay for a necropsy. I told him that, while I might not be as knowlegeable as a vet doing the procedure, I was curious why the snake died and I would necropsy it myself for free. He let me and I found the same thing!

Rodents teeth and claws dont point the right direction on the way back up.

I guess it could be anything with your snake but its something to think about.

Sorry for your loss it was a great loking snake.

One of the lessons commonly expressed on CSI is, to investigate further. Its normally not the first apparent thing you see.(cause and effect)

I think that would be the case here. First, why did it throw up if its not sick? So even if the claws caused injury on their way out. Why did that happen? The cause is what caused it to throw up. This goes for the python and other snake too.

In this case, I already see several things that need investigating, first the green on the tissue, it could be bile, which is created by the spleen, bile digests fat. This is constantly produced and expelled with snakes that are not feeding properly. Also there appears to be a widening up from the vent. Is this a blockage? Lastly, the mouse appears dehydrated(freezer burned) These are often regurged, by snakes in marginal conditions.

To really learn, you must keep looking, not stop at the first clue. Cheers

obviously snakes don't regurge for no reason even if they apear healthy. (not something everyone on the forum knows)

The freezerburn thing is a good idea, I have definetely seen that before.

Question: Wouldn't the bile be produced after the snake eats under normal conditions? Like you said, bile digests fat, and I also see a fat little lab mouse in the pic. Bile is released into the upper part of the duodenum, where it could pretty easily backtrack. I would think that seeing bile in the vomit would be pretty normal. No???

A normal healthy snake does not pass bile. Or we would see it on a daily basis, wouldn't we?

If a snake is passing bile, you need to take that as a sign, something may be amiss. Cheers

Not to be a nit picker but the liver produces bile which is stored in the gall bladder before transport to the intestine. The spleen is involved with the immune system. Bile contains bile salts which aid in the digestion and absorbtion of fats. Bile also contains the products from the breakdown of red blood cells. I have noticed the green bile in sick snakes also, usually animals that are not feeding and are wasting.

>>One of the lessons commonly expressed on CSI is, to investigate further. Its normally not the first apparent thing you see.(cause and effect)
>>
>> I think that would be the case here. First, why did it throw up if its not sick? So even if the claws caused injury on their way out. Why did that happen? The cause is what caused it to throw up. This goes for the python and other snake too.
>>
>> In this case, I already see several things that need investigating, first the green on the tissue, it could be bile, which is created by the spleen, bile digests fat. This is constantly produced and expelled with snakes that are not feeding properly. Also there appears to be a widening up from the vent. Is this a blockage? Lastly, the mouse appears dehydrated(freezer burned) These are often regurged, by snakes in marginal conditions.
>>
>> To really learn, you must keep looking, not stop at the first clue. Cheers
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Rick Staub

My head was up me bum i guess. I knew that, this getting old sucks. the problem is the amount of time between actually having to use this type of information. I guess its a good thing if I do not have to apply it often. But the point is the same. Thanks

Not trying to be a forum troll but what about when snakes swallow their food butt first? Obviously you have data that cannot be disputed and you have seen it first hand. It makes sense that a really sharp claw could cut and damage the throat. However, the esophagus is really tough and should be able to handle claws and nails.
Do you think that the claws of frozen thawed feeders are more likely to cause this type of problem? Freezing feeders dries them out. Claws/nails are more flexible on live prey. They would dry out during freezing and storage. This would make them stiffer and maybe this would cause them to cut the esophagus if the feeder was eaten butt first or regurged.
Just a thought.
Thanks for sharing your first hand experience.

I never said that it was common. Obviously, snakes regurge without dieing all the time. As well as eat food butt first. I just thought in this case (a sort of wierd situation) the syptoms fit this obscure problem.

The only thing that I could think that might make regurging more dangerous then butt first eating is that as the lips and gums of the prey are digested they expose the teeth more.

In my opinion in the long run it is safer to feed thawed mice for several reasons... bugs, bites, etc.

Although, i am not saying that in this case is was not the cause of death, but with the number of us that feed thawed mice to our herps don't you think this would be a more common issue??

Again, i am sorry for your loss, i am curious to know exactly what happend to your animal. i think this is an interesting topic that we can all learn somthing from..

~ Mike Russo

Is it possible to have one done? Or to do it yourself? If you havn't discarded the body, it can be very enlightening.

sorry but i tossed the animal ? but as i recall it was a voracious feeder that morning and didnt pay much attention,and went on feeding the rest with no other probs! btw it was a livy.Thanks to all that mourn ! SE La Vi. and as far as bile ive seen in albino morphes if you see green belly spots they usually die,maybe someone can help with this bile problem if it is curable.Chris..............

..not saying that's the casue of death,but just the first thing i noticed...yeash the green bile is a good point,maybe a more immediate/direct link to it's death,adn i also noticed some swelling in the snakes lower body.
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

people say it looks swolen,it was just a healthy good eatter like i said after death he went limp that includes rib support on his body.btw what is bile ,i used to be a professial fisherman and have cleaned truck loads of fish ussually trying to avoid fillet and bile to make contact cause it tastes nasty and bitter. Isn't it a digestive enzyme??