Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well my corn decided to double clutch on her own. i did not reintroduce them until the other day and i wake up today to find a second clutch. she did not appear to be gravid and i did not even think she was until the other day, when she started roaming constantly. i placed an egg box in her cage and now i have a second clutch. well here is my question since i introduced my pair the other day and copulation was witnessed WHAT ARE THE CHANCES SHE WILL LAY A THIRD CLUTCH??? i do not want a third clutch from her due to her size(she is skinny) and knowing it is not a good thing. if i had known she was gravid i would not of introduced them to each other the other day. i plan on power feeding her so just incase she does drop a third clutch she wont get emaciated.
so again what are the chances she will lay a third clutch?
adam
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hybrid breeders association
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

Well I have been there so let me tell you what I learned. The snake layed the first clutch and looked skinny right?? So you fed her lots to get some weight back on her right?? Then she laid a second clutch and looked skinny again and that is where we are at. You want to feed her lots and get some weight back on her. If you do you will likely get at least a ovulation and possibly a third clutch.

Here is what is happening on the snakes side of the glass. The entire pupose of that female is to make more of her kind. If conditions allow she will keep producing eggs as long as those conditions allow it. The condition is of course food. If you give your girl a mouse as soon as she finishes laying and then another in 3 days and 2-3 in another couple days you will get a second clutch. This is especially true of first year breeders in my experience.

The problem is we as keepers are doing what we think is right by offering all the food we can. We are working extra hard to "help" our poor little female. On the snakes side her body is saying the conditions are perfect lets make more eggs. With all these mice available there will be food for my babies. So with the best intentions your are causing extra stress on your female.

My suggestion is to wait a few days and give a small meal. Then wait for at least a week and give another small meal. After two weeks or so you can go back to heavy feedings and be OK. I did the same thing you are likely doing for a couple years and I had lots of problems because of it. Simple fact is, the second clutch won't come if the food is not there. After 2-3 weeks the female will be out of breding mode and you can feed heavy without the worry of multi clutching. Just remember down the road when you want to multi clutch your animals that there is a direct coralation between food and eggs.

Later Jason

Thanks, Jason. I had no idea that food would/could be the deciding factor in multiple clutches (of course, I haven't bred anything yet and wouldn't without doing further research). Man, I do love to learn! LOL.

Oh, I think there was a question as to the viability of 2nd and 3rd clutches. How viable are they usually?
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4 Corns - Aphrodite (Normal), Freya (Normal), Peyton (Amel), and Royal (Lavender)
2 Florida Kings - Thor (Axanthic Brooksi) & Lilith (Normal)
1 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake - MacLeod

well since i started this thread i will tell you my female gave me 19 good eggs the first clutch and 16 good eggs the second clutch. she has never ever laid a bad egg. she has laid eggs that were twins where 1 or both did not survive and also i have had full term deaths due to what i believe was to high a humidity or spikes in temp
adam
p.s. i have corrected both the to high a humidity and am incubating at a lower temp so if it spikes it wont spike that high
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hybrid breeders association
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

Dan
In talking about this one of my snakes I am thinking about dropped two clutches and ovulated for a third. I talked to everybody I could think of including the every helpful Mrs. Love but there was nothing to be done but wait. She was "egg bound" by most standards but the ova never hardened so I never took her to the vet. I could count 12 or 14 full sized huge eggs in her. The following spring I put her with a snow male and in 31 days she dropped the eggs all of which where good. The ova she carried where so big that she was distended from them. Since that experience I have looked a little closer at fatter snakes that I see. Until that I never even thought that a snake could carry ova over winter and not die or reabsorb them. I have since seen what I believe to be just this occurrence though in all other cases besides this one the ova are normal sized.

I have no medical proof and I can hardly get anyone to even look at their snakes unless I am at their house showing them in person, but I have no doubt in my mind that it is happening in many collections. So there is more out there than just the simple things to look at. I am currently trying to double a few snakes and all of them seem to be responding to the heavy feeding by ovulating. Two of the snakes in question are corns that I felt where carrying ova this winter and their first clutches where right in line, though off a couple eggs, with what I thought they would drop when I noticed what I believed was ova in December/January.

This is just a little tidbit of what I am thinking in my mind. It is a little crazy to some but I think it will come out to be more common than everybody now thinks. The heavy feeding right after a female lays a clutch is something that seems so obvious after you think of it, but it just never comes to mind until someone points it out.For the record the guy that pointed it out to me was much more rude about it. LOL I believe he called me a stupid idiot when I whined about my corn that was trying to triple clutch and I was just trying to feed her enough to get some weight on her. At the end of the day he was right on target though.

later Jason

thanx for the advice its makes a lot of sense. after her first clutch she did not not loose much weight and was looking good. i did feed her quite a bit as i did plan on double clutching. i did already feed her so i will wait to feed her again. she never double clutched in previous years so i believed i had to play a bigger role in order to get her to this point. i hope she does not give me a third clutch and i will remeber this for the life of my part in this hobby.
adam
-----
hybrid breeders association
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

The overall condition of the snake going into the breeding season plays a role. If she doubled for you, you had to have had her in top shape to begin with. So no doubt your husbandry played a role. I am sure you are doing everything right as far as what you know is right. Now that you are going to think about the relation of the food and the females response to it in the breeding season you should be able to get the females you want to double and the ones you don't want to you should be able to control as well. I don't know why this isn't brought up more in the care books but it is a good thing to bring up here.

Thanks Jason