Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been interested in a ring light for my Sony F828, but I am thoroughly discouraged by the high price of $250. I've been looking into buying materials and making my own for under $100. I have been able to find sources online that will sell strips of white LEDs that you can curve into a circle and run off of a 12 V battery. The only problem is that a strip of quality white LEDs will run about $80. That's still a little high for my liking. Tonight I was at the auto parts store looking at all the trendy lights you can accessorize your car with. For only $20 they had a flexible neon light. Not only would it look pretty neat in my truck, I'm considering using this for a rain light since I could build one for even cheaper!

My question for the experts is will this be appropriate for still photography? Who knows if there "white" color is really a pale blue like some of the cheap LEDs. But I'm considering taking a risk with this product, so I can tell me the color rendering index would be off. From what I can gather from the web site below, the phosphorus is used as the excitable ingredient.

Basically, I would use this coiled upon itself attached to a reflective surface (such as an annoying AOL CD) and attach it to the front of the camera. A power wire would lead from the light to a small 12 V battery where I would also have an on-off switch and possibly a dimmer. But who knows if a dimmer will work with a neon light. It does require a ballast so I'm wondering if it's similar to a florescent light that you can not dim.

Manufacturer's web site
http://www.optxbystreetglow.com/elneonstring.htm

Here is the only web site I could find talking about the product, and I had Google translate it from Spanish
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftodomodding.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Fmode%3Dhybrid%26t%3D407&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

I'm certainly not a photography expert, but I think you're missing something important about the concept of a flash...like it being as bright as the sun...

If you want cheap and you're working indoors a couple of 10 dollar lamps with good compact fluorescent bulbs would probably work better, plus you could position them wherever you like. You'd still need a slow shutter speed, but probably not as slow as with your plan.

>>I'm certainly not a photography expert, but I think you're missing something important about the concept of a flash...like it being as bright as the sun...

My idea was not supposed to be an exact replacement of a flash, as the light would always be on. See my comments in my other reply.

>>
>>If you want cheap and you're working indoors a couple of 10 dollar lamps with good compact fluorescent bulbs would probably work better, plus you could position them wherever you like. You'd still need a slow shutter speed, but probably not as slow as with your plan.

I guess I could have specified my application. Field herp photography. So I need something that doesn't require a lot of juice, and certainly not something that required alternating current!
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

The color of the light wouldn't be a big deal. That's why digital cameras have adjustable white balance. You would just have to set the white point under that light.

The problem is that those little neon tubes hardly put out any light at all. A flash puts out a very powerful blast but only for a fraction of a second. Even your LED idea probably wouldn't generate enough light.

A $250 ringlight isn't that expensive. Look on Ebay and see if you can find a used one, or try someplace like KEH.com.

Now that I think of it, I remember reading a post by someone else who built a pseudo-ringlight (maybe even for a Sony F828 or similar series?). He took a white plastic coolwhip type container, cut a whole so it fit tight around the lens and put it on backwards so the flash fired into the container. I think he put some foil reflective tape around the edges to focus the light output to the front.
You could even leave the lid on with just a cutout for the lens and flash to focus even more of the light forward (and not blind yourself!). You would have to put tape on the inside of it as well.

It gave nice, pretty even, diffuse lighting, if I remember correctly. It only costs a few bucks to make and was really field hardy. Furthermore, it was TTL, because it relied on the popup flash!
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

>>The problem is that those little neon tubes hardly put out any light at all. A flash puts out a very powerful blast but only for a fraction of a second. Even your LED idea probably wouldn't generate enough light.

Actual light intensity output was not something I had thought about last night, so thanks for pointing that out. Maybe you aren't familiar with LED ringlights? I have seen where some do have a "flash" function, but most are designed to be "always on". So there is no comparison between any application of LEDs in photography, and regular flashes. LEDs are indeed being used in ring lights and they can produce enough light.

>>
>>A $250 ringlight isn't that expensive. Look on Ebay and see if you can find a used one, or try someplace like KEH.com.

$250 may not be that expensive for a ring light but still pretty darn high for a group of LEDs and an on/off switch!

>>Now that I think of it, I remember reading a post by someone else who built a pseudo-ringlight

I have seen that website, and here is one that shows a homemade ringlight using LEDs
http://brainerror.net/texts_macroring_en.php

Thanks for the input. I could buy the neon strip and if it doesn't work out, I find a place for it in my truck!
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

Maybe you aren't familiar with LED ringlights? I have seen where some do have a "flash" function, but most are designed to be "always on". So there is no comparison between any application of LEDs in photography, and regular flashes. LEDs are indeed being used in ring lights and they can produce enough light.

I forgot that they are making LED ringlights now. I had actually looked at them online before. DOH!

I'm not sure I like the always on idea, however. That works fine for coins and flowers, but getting up in the face of a nocturnal herp with a circle of bright LEDs might not produce very cooperative photo subjects. I think the quick flash idea is likely to produce more keepers.

I don't see why someone with a little electrical know-how, couldn't rig up a bank of LEDs to fire off the camera's hot shoe or sync cord. LEDs are pretty much instant on/instant off, so you could get them to fire like that.

$250 may not be that expensive for a ring light but still pretty darn high for a group of LEDs and an on/off switch!

I was thinking of a traditional ringlight, which usually run $400-500 for a dedicated module.
They have the advantage of giving you a flash duration as short as 1/10,000th of a second, which really freezes action. They also can be turned on in sections, so you can light from just one side if needed.

I have seen that website, and here is one that shows a homemade ringlight using LEDs
http://brainerror.net/texts_macroring_en.php

That looks like a good starting point. However his light gives very uneven lighting and he doesn't have information about what shutter speeds he was using. I suspect they were fairly slow speeds. I would be inclined to use a lot more LEDs clustered more tightly together to give more light and more even illumination.

Rather than go for the ringlight shape, why not try to make something like one of the macro lights with two separate, moveable light heads? It seems like it would be more versatile and easier to make.

Here's one that Canon sells. There are a variety of other brands.

Actually, that gave me another better alternative to make a macro light like this one. Why not just take two Petzl Tikka Plus headlamps, cut off the straps and make some sort of method to attach them to your camera. You could then have a pair of switched LED lights mounted on your lens. You could change the angle of the light and even turn them on different powers to create various directional lighting effects. Hmmm....I may have to try that myself!
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Chris, once again I knew I could count on you to come through on this stuff. All of your ideas are worth considering, except using the LEDs from a headlamp. Chances are they are not the WHITE LEDs you'd need for photography. I have used my LED headlamps for illumination for my camera to focus, and for video without any real problems however.
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

They LEDs from those lights are a little cool, but why couldn't you just set the white balance for that LED light.

Most digital cameras can remember a custom WB setting. Just read a white/gray card under that lighting and keep that as one of your custom settings.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

From your post it sounds like you would like to use a flash for subjects that are butting up against the lens.

I considered a ring lamp at first too, but I've had good luck with a homemade diffuser that directs onboard flash light to a vantage point in front of the lens hood. It dims as well as diffuses, so the problems that i had with shiny herp-details blowing out have pretty much gone away. The diffuser does not allow light through behind the lens hood, so the lens casts no shadow.

i constructed it from what is essentially a half gallon milk jug, covered with electrical tape except for the section that protrudes in front of the lens hood. I attached a white card type reflector to the tip to redirect light down. I wrap white paper around it in varying quantities depending on how much light i want to let through. I use custom white balance setting to offset any color discrepancies.

below are a couple of pictures taken with it, as well as a side by side of the two diffusers that i use. The salamander was taken at night on snake road, with just a flashlight over my shoulder to get focus. The crested gecko was taken in dim indoor light. Camera is sony DSC-H1.

Erik.

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Erik Williams

fattailed geckos, western hognoses, and a bunch of postage stamps.
Contact me
www.chicagoherp.org
Chicago Herpetological Society

>>From your post it sounds like you would like to use a flash for subjects that are butting up against the lens.
>>
>> I considered a ring lamp at first too, but I've had good luck with a homemade diffuser that directs onboard flash light to a vantage point in front of the lens hood. It dims as well as diffuses, so the problems that i had with shiny herp-details blowing out have pretty much gone away. The diffuser does not allow light through behind the lens hood, so the lens casts no shadow.
>>
>> i constructed it from what is essentially a half gallon milk jug, covered with electrical tape except for the section that protrudes in front of the lens hood. I attached a white card type reflector to the tip to redirect light down. I wrap white paper around it in varying quantities depending on how much light i want to let through. I use custom white balance setting to offset any color discrepancies.
>>
>> below are a couple of pictures taken with it, as well as a side by side of the two diffusers that i use. The salamander was taken at night on snake road, with just a flashlight over my shoulder to get focus. The crested gecko was taken in dim indoor light. Camera is sony DSC-H1.
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>>Erik.
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>>-----
>>Erik Williams
>>
>>fattailed geckos, western hognoses, and a bunch of postage stamps.
>>Contact me
>>www.chicagoherp.org
>>Chicago Herpetological Society
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Erik Williams

fattailed geckos, western hognoses, and a bunch of postage stamps.
Contact me
www.chicagoherp.org
Chicago Herpetological Society

Thanks for the great post! I have seen several instances where people have crafted diffusers out of milk jugs, and this seems to be a pretty good example of it.

I do not pictures of it, but I did make a bracket out of flat aluminum to hold a flast directly above the the lens. I just haven't had that much success with getting quality shots out of it since the flash's AF assist really wasn't made for 2cm close ups.
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

the focus issue is tough...so far the best way i have found is to get a focus lock and then kill the flashlight. It's a hack, but so far it seems to work.
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Erik Williams

fattailed geckos, western hognoses, and a bunch of postage stamps.
Contact me
www.chicagoherp.org
Chicago Herpetological Society

>>I have seen that website, and here is one that shows a homemade ringlight using LEDs
>>http://brainerror.net/texts_macroring_en.php

If you look, you will notice that the pics he shows are indoors and still look pretty dark. This light would be completely drowned out by the background taking pics outside, during the day. I don't think you'll be happy with this design unless your expectations for your photography are not very high.

After a quick search, I see two kinds of LED ring lights. One is used for video which doesn't need as much light and the other uses a BUNCH of "extra bright" (meaning not cheap) LED's and still lists only indoor uses...

>>If you look, you will notice that the pics he shows are indoors and still look pretty dark. This light would be completely drowned out by the background taking pics outside, during the day. I don't think you'll be happy with this design unless your expectations for your photography are not very high.

Yeah, I didn't claim this is THE way to make one yourself, but provided it as an example. In fact, the LED strips I was looking at had 20 LEDs (which means each LED was around $4 each, about right for the high quality LEDs). I thought using more LEDs would be the ONLY way to properly do a ring light.

I couldn't find all the sites I had looked at previously, but here are some...
http://www.theledlight.com/flexboard.html
http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/PLT500/

Or I could buy them individually
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&cp=&productId=2102852&kw=led white&tab=techSpecs
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine