Reptile & Amphibian Forums

can i mix red eye tree frogs with poison dart frogs????

i want a blue, a yellow, a red, a orange and a green poison dart frog.... is this possible?

are they compatable with red eye tree frogs???

Nah.. it is not a good idea.
Nor is mixing different species of darts..

If you want a RETF, get a tank with RETFs
If you want a green dart.. get another tank!
If you want a blue dart.. get a third tank!
You get the idea?

Mixing them will cause you all sorts of troubles with toxins and territory issues.
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but what if i just got a larger tank... say 75-100 gallons and just put one kind of each species... one red, one blue, one green, one yellow, and one RETF....

i know alot of people say dont mix because of hybrids and that basically messes up the price of pure breeds. its a bit of a conspiracy you have to admit.

That is really not that big of a tank..
and it has nothing to do with cross breeding (in my opinion.. if you bought the animals and want to create morphs.. it is your right).. Alot of darts are aggressive and you will have issues mixing dart species as a result. They also have a certain level of toxic secressions that is not good for the RETF. Beyond that, the large crickets that the RETF will need will pick at the darts.. and the FF needed for the darts will stress the RETF.

Now, you also have a husbandry issue that pops up, darts need a very very humid tank (90% the majority of the time for most species) while RETF do best in 60-80% tanks.

From your response, you almost seem to have your mind made up, and your just looking for someone to say it is ok.. Anyone with much experience in darts is going to agree though, it is a bad idea.
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no my mind is not made up, but i just want someone to give me a better answer than "because"

and you seemed to do that.

you gave very very valid reasons why i should not put them together.

thanks.

what other animals can you put in with a red eye tree frog?

and what other animals could you put in with dart frogs?

separate tanks of course.

I agree with Tim.. you shouldnt mix species.. If you want darts and tree frogs you'll need two tanks.. even if RETFs are nocturnal they will still be stressed by FF's and the darts will be stressed by the crickets.. not a good idea

I have seen people keep phelsuma with RETF's.. I don't think it is a great idea becuase they will basically compete for the same living space and food. The ones that I say in the same tank, neither species appeared to be real healthy..

I have also seen people keep inverts with them.. but there are some toxins that you have to deal with, and I honestly don't know enough about inverts to offer any help there.

I am not like a lot of people, I am not against mixed tanks at all.. But I think before it is attempted, one should be very very familiar with all animals involved and have several years experience with each. Then you will understand their husbandry requirements and also know the animals well enough to catch the early signs of trouble. I see alot of people jump into amphibians, buy 3-5 different species.. and end up with dead frogs. Frogs are pretty sensitive, they stress easily. Some of them (Retf's and darts included) aren't very tolerant of errors in the temps and humidity in their tanks.

You are very right about the fact if you can keep reef tanks, you are certainly capable of keeping a few frogs. But you had to start slowly with the reef and learn from the mistakes.. same thing here.

I will also say this.. since i am in a babbling mood.. it is addictive.. so don't worry.. you will have a house full of frog tanks before you know it..
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yeah trust me... i have lost hundreds of dollars of fish since i started.

just a live and learn type of deal.

obviously i would want to think of the bigger picture of long term and keep them separate if it keeps them healthier.

thanks for your help!

i really think, after reading many of your other posts, that you need to try your luck as a true beginner and test out some easy to kep amphibians, before trying a mixed tank. if you cannot identify a red eyed treefrog from a very good picture(seeing as how red eyes are like the poster child of treefrogs), then you definatly don't have enough experience with amphibs to attempt a good and healthy community tank.

understandable.

but are ou saying that it is possible to do what i want with at RETF and poison dart frogs?

i am only new to amphibs... but i have a very successful reef tank with many fish and inverts.

im sure i could handle this.

I have been keeping frogs for 30 years and I don't think I could handle this.

Would you put a goldfish in a reef tank?
Well, that is kind of what you are proposing here. The two species have different requirements, and different habits. And while a RETF may not really want to eat a dart frog, it could happen. And since darts are expensive, why would you want to house it with a potential predator?
Tim has spelled out all of the issues very well. The only one I would add is why would you want to make life miserable for these animals? Keeping frogs is about THEM, not about you.

no no, i have been given valid reasons why i should not.

so i will not.

i will keep red eye tree frogs separate from poison dart frogs.

but now... are there ANY kinds of dart frogs that can go together?

why do i always see pictures of several dart frogs together... is it just for marketing???

Very few people keep different species of darts together successfully.. and the ones that do, usually do it for marketing (zoo's and petstores etc.. ) That either only have the animals in their for a short time, or are more concerned about "showing" the animals then the health of them. If one dies in a zoo.. they just get another..

Some darts do well in goups of the same species.. but several are pretty territorial... for example tincs, the females will fight other females (even siblings), often stressing the animal to the point of death.

I would strongly recommend you starting with just one type, and letting it grow from there, adding new tanks with each new species. If you have access to a 75, you can split it with glass panels into 3-4 smaller sections.. and then you can have them all in one area, but safely in their own spaces.. w/ reef experience, you should be able to make that happen.

I would look into Leucs, galacts, bicolors or terribilis for your first dart. They are colorful frogs, bold animals and generally easy to care for and somewhat foregiving of mistakes. They will also do well in groups of the same species.. so you can have a group of leucs (I have 10 together) or a group of galacts.. but I would not mix them together..
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hmm ok. i think i might just partition off a larger tank like you said.

i also am going to incorporate orchids into the vivarium as well.

plus any other super crazy plants i find in my research to be sufficient.

but what about the different colored bi-colored dart frogs?

what do you do when you have morphs and hybrids?

how do you keep multiple ones in the same area?

i really dont know the names of them yet so this is still hard for me.

technically, the different colors of bicolor, or the different terribilis, or different galacts will do just fine together. I personally don't mix mine at all, nor does the dart world in general.. it is not like the rest of the herp hobby where morphs and hybrids are considered to be a premium animal. In fact you wont find many hybrids.. you will only find natural morphs.. the dart world is crazy like that.

As for orchids, I would recommend getting some of the jewel orchids. Most other orchids are very difficult to keep in a viv as most of them require a substantial amount of air circulation to do well. You will also want to check out bromeliads.. they are a dartfrogs best friend!
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i was thinking more along the lines of phaleonopsis for orchids???

the website.... www.poison-frogs.com seems to reccomend them

seems to be a pretty sweet website.

ill probably go with the blue d. azuzeus... can i keep like 6 of these in a tank... or is it pretty strict to the 2 males to 1 female ratio??

that is a great site.. keep in mind the level of the vivarium building skill he has. He also use a pretty complex ventilation system. Anyways, I don't know much about those.. give it a try and let me know if it works.

Azureus are apart of the tinc family, and like the others in this group, the females will fight (I have heard of them drowning each other, and have witnessed them stress other females out to the point that they are starving to death). The males are fine though.. you can have 1 male and 1 female.. or 10 males and 1 female..the hard part there, is most of the time, sexed adults are harder to find, and always more expensive..
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how do they determin the sex of the frogs???

i also thought frogs had the ability to go from male to female and female to male?

is this true?

Sexing a frog depends on the species.. some you can tell by physical size, others the shape of their backs or size of their toe pads. Some are very difficult and you can only sex by observing breeding activity, calling or egg laying.

Tincs are pretty easy, there is a size difference, the back is shaped different and toe pads are different in size and shape between males and females.

"i also thought frogs had the ability to go from male to female and female to male?"
There is absolutely no truth to that what so ever..
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I have many tanks that are mixed species, some are all amphibians, others are reptiles and amphibians, but i have never worked with dart frogs before and i cannot give you any sound advice on whether or not this tank would work. i can tell you that i have had experience with red eyes before, and they are not generally for the beginner, and from what i understand, neither are dart frogs. both require fairly strict climate requirements in regards to humidity, temperature, and lighting. one tank that i currently have that is a good one for beginners is a mix of new caldonia crested geckos and whites treefrogs. all are adults, which ensures that neither will try to eat the other, and they both enjoy (or will at least tolerate) similar climates. One thing you need to understand is that while a marine reef tank can be a good learning lesson on creating community tanks and salt water fish can be very delicate, but caring for ampibians is nothing like fish. it is much easier to keep water at a constant setting (for temp, salinity, etc) that its inhabitants reqiure, then it is to keep air at any constant setting for temp and humidity. this can only be accomplished through much research and losts of experience or, at times, dumb luck.
I cannot stop you from making a mixed species tank, but i would recommend against darts and red eyes, even though i have seen it done (by very, very experienced breeders and keepers) and i would really suggest you start out simple and work up to complicated, for the sake of the animals.