Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I bought Rico a mail-order-bride……he seems to be getting along with her VERY well (see pics). He’s getting along with her MUCH better than I anticipated. I wasn’t even positive Rico was a male~ but I was hoping if I got an adult female~ maybe by this time next year I would see some breeding from them. Well~ they got to the breeding part right away. SO~ now IF fertile eggs are produced ~ then what? I’ve tried to find information on incubation of Rudi eggs~ but what information I am finding is mostly for water monitors and is contradictory. The one constant seems to be that getting them to breed is the easy part (No kidding!) and if eggs are produced then retrieving them and incubation is the tricky part. I’ve read everything from 82F to 90F and anywhere from 2 months to 9 months incubation.

Any clues~ hints~ help on finding reliable information? Is it available anywhere or is it still a “try it and see” situation with Rudi’s?

Thanks for any help!

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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

Your problems are only begining.

Yes, breeding is easy with monitors, they breed, males breed females, males breed males. Females breed males and females too. Of course one of those would be important if eggs are to be produced.

If that happens(a gravid female), your problems are common. The hardest part of breeding monitors is getting eggs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that have the possibility to hatch. That is not such a common occurance, even if it is easy.

A healthy pair and food, plus a cultural important nesting area is all you need. Culturally important means something that a particular population of monitor understands. A species may have a wider varity of ways it nests, but a population may only have one. The one that works where they live. Yes, this can be hard to accomplish.

There is a really great lady that use to come here often and still pops in from time to time. Her name is Dragoon, shes from Canada. She had a pair of rudis and she did a great job of taking care of them and attending to their needs. Her pair laid a bizillion eggs(fertile) and she hatched some. She had many many clutches.

Maybe she will fill you in on whats important.

She did nothing species specific as far as I can tell, she simply attended to her monitors needs the best she understood. She had a great feel for living animals(something neglecked here) As successful as she was, she knew very well it was not entirely right to the animals. It was very hard on her. This is something you must be prepared for.

She gave them temp choices, humidity choices, nothing different then any other monitor, fed them. And of course her weak area was nesting. Unfortunately, monitors nests are generally larger then the cages we keep them in. Also humans have very weird ideas and patterns. For instance, we think a nest, HAS to be smaller then the cage(like sparrows or parakeets) That simply doesn't apply to monitors. To me, understanding this area is key to success.

In my opinion, if your not going to attend to this area, then don't keep pairs together. Its horrible torture for a gravid monitor to not have a nest it understands. Eventually it kills them. Sometimes quickly.

So, hopefully Goon will give you a hand. Cheers

Well~ hopefully I can find this Dragoon person, or someone else who will help me out with some information. It would be fun to hatch some eggs! BUT~ if that doesn’t pan out that’s okay with me. I got Goblyn mostly because I felt sorry for Rico being alone. He seemed to me to be a pretty intelligent creature~ and his solitary life seemed boring to me. I know~ that’s very anthropomorphic~ but I was worried about it. So Goblyn was mostly to be a companion for Rico~ with the hopes that someday maybe a fun project of hatching some Rudi eggs would follow. Even if that never comes about~ that’s okay~ Goblyn is doing her job~ she is defiantly being a good companion for Rico and he is certainly enjoying her company! Seeing him enjoying her company over and over, and over and over again soothes my anthropomorphic worry that he was bored! (WOW~ do these monitors have some stamina or what!?!?)

In the mean time I’ll keep looking for the information if it is available anywhere. If anyone knows how to contact Dragoon I would certainly appreciate it. It would be a fun project to actually produce some babies!

Thanks!
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

Wait

“Its horrible torture for a gravid monitor to not have a nest it understands”

Are you saying that keeping them together~ while it may be good for Rico~ and right now looks like a good thing for Goblyn maybe a bad thing for her? I understand she may not lay fertile eggs~ or if she lays eggs I’ll probably mess them up~ but are you saying just keeping her with Rico and allowing them to entertain each other will be horrible for her?

I certainly don’t want to torture her anymore than I’ve wanted to torture him.

I was/am planning to build an outdoor enclosure this month. Nothing fancy and nice like our indoor enclosure~ but somewhere where he could stay in the later summer months when I thought she might be getting ready to lay eggs~ and where both of them could be during cage cleaning times when I like to run the sprinkler on them (not a permanent all year enclosure due to heat concerns~ and because we really like observing them in the enclosure in the living room).

Do you think I would be best to move her into the outdoor enclosure with several nesting options once I have it built?
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

I am afraid, most of what I have to say is not what you want to here. That is, your thinking and the reality of monitors, are most likely two different things.

First, most likely over 90% of captive females die of egg complications. Over longer periods that percentage is higher. Hmmmmmm like near the 100% range. It may be their job to reproduce to death. Or so it seems.

About your outdoor caging, It will not be of much help. Once a female lays, they will attempt to produce eggs every month or two, year around. That was Dragoons experience as well. So your thoughts of spring or summer is not very realistic. Your cage may work for one clutch or two, then its winter, and the monitors keep going.

I have many monitors that breed successfully summer, spring, fall and winter. In the same year. The reason is, I like you, feed them. You feed them and they inturn breed. Kinda some design of theirs.

And lastly. This stamina may not be what you think. Monitors copulate(mock copulation) as a form of social positioning. As in females will mate females. I already mentioned this.

I could easily be wrong, but I see no evidence your male is a male. Male rudis have huge long noses(compared to females) and very visable hemipenal bulges. Males also tend to be darker(Nearly black) Females tend to be more patterned and have more of that blue thing going. But as I say, tendencies, not absolutes.

Monitors also include tweeners, that is, individuals that are more or less neutral in sex. I know, more then you want to hear.

The point is, you are far from getting a gravid female. In fact, females appear gravid(swollen and fat) before they copulate. They develop huge fat stores internally and use this stored energy to enlarge the ovum into eggs. This occurs before copulation. If this is not apparent, then you have nothing to worry about.

The real problem is, if improper nesting or no nesting is provided, these fat bodies/ovum or eggs, are held and become septic and you lose your female. Once the sequence starts the safest easist thing is to allow them to lay the eggs as fast as possible. The problem is, they hold the eggs if conditions are not right. They will hold them until the eggs die inside them and become infected. Its not a good thing. There are many on this board that have experienced this. SHvars wonderful blackthroat female had to have her eggs removed. She survived, she was lucky and she had SHvars support. I know I said the same thing twice in this paragraph, but even twice is not enough.

Lastly, in my experience, offering several types of nesting is another common approach. But unfortunately, its not a good approach. Is like giving a bunch of slices of different kinds of pie. When whats needed is one whole pie. Not slices.

Again, there is most likely no need for this yet. But just in case, keep it in mind. Good luck.

Congrats on the breeding. Hopefully next month you will get good eggs to incubate.
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Ed

I am hoping they do produce some eggs, and that I don't screw them up if any are produced! That would be fun for me to actually hatch some babies. You can bet I'll post pics!! I'm not counting on it~ but I'm not above hoping it will work out! ~ Meanwhile~ Goblyn seems to be very *stimulating* company for Rico!
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!