Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We got a new baby Ball a couple of weeks ago (now we have 2.2). He's a nice normal CH that I picked up from a trusted local shop. He had eaten two fuzzy mice, no problem except for a less than agressive feeding response. Saturady Night he ate a live pinky rat I bought from a local rodent breeder that was left in his cage overnight, and when I got home this afternoon he had puked it up. I was home for lunch and he seemed fine so this must have happened in the last 4hrs.

This worries me greatly, so my questions are what are possible causes of this, and what should I be on the lookout for that might indicate a greater problem?

Oh, he is set up in a 10gal with paper towel substrate, a good water dish and a cave hide that he seems to like. He has UTH, and a 40wat bulb on a 12hr cycle. Temps range from 80-98 during the day and he seems happy, hiding during the day and cruising around at night. Thanks for any help.

One thing that just occured to me is, I had noticed that the lump in the snake after he had eaten did not look as smooth as they normally do, and I remember thinking that he may have swallowed it backwards. Could that cause him to not be able to move it down his gut or something, and so he would have to throw it up?

I would bet the snake over heated and thats what caused the regurge. If cage temps reach 98, the snake's body temp would most likely be even higher. Way too hot. I would soak the snake to re-hydrate it and don't feed it again for 2 weeks so its stomach fluids can build back up. And even then, offer small meals every 10 days or so. If you feed it too soon it will regurge again.

Thanks for the reply. That 98° reading is only directly under the light. The cool side is 80°, and the hide cave where he normally is during the day is probably in the upper 80s, but definately warmer the the cool corner because I place it half over the UTH, so I feel like he had enough choices to thermoregulate. I also have two of my other snakes in nearly identical set-ups and they are doing just fine. Do you have any thoughts on my other question about swallowing bass-ackwards?

Hmm I'm not sure how much it could thermo-regulate in a 10 gallon tank. I'd take a good look at that. As for eating backwards I don't think it would cause a problem. At least it never has here.

I suspect the other poster was right. Balls are so secretive that they will roast themselves rather than select a cooler location that makes them uncomfortable. There should be no part of the cage above about 85 or 86 degrees. You might want to check the cage floor directly above the UTH. I bet the surface temp is even higher than you think....probably well over 100 degrees unless you have it on a thermostat. Eating the rat backwards should be no problem....it happens all the time. Get a good thermometer and check your temps....I would bet thats your problem (and do it fast....overheating can be fatal).

Once you have the temps dialed in...Wait a few weeks (at east 3 weeks) before offering food again. The baby will be fine without food for that period of time. Its innards need time to heal before feeding again. Regurging is extremely stressfull and damaging.

Good luck!

I'm sorry, but that is just wrong information. 85 is not hot enough for the warm side. Personally I go with about 92-94 on the warm side and 82-84 on the cool 24/7. I would get rid of your heat light all together. They are really not at all necessary for balls. Just get a thermostat for your UTH, and a lid that will hold in the humidity and you will be fine. If she regurges again I would take a fecal to the vet.
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John Vandegrift

we've maintained our ball pythons (several) with day time highs in the mid 80's and night time temps around 80 degrees for the past few years. Never a regurge or respiratory problem.

did you know a snakes body temperature increases after a meal? There is around a 44% increase in metabolism and with that is a slight increase in body temp. I've noticed snakes in an 85 degree sweater box (no belly heat) with a body temp 3-4 degrees higher. So if you heat the cage to 90, after a meal the snake may be 93 and close to regurging. Check it with a temperature gun and you will see.

I heat to 93 on the warm side and have never had a problem. If you check on the larger breeders site I guarantee you will not find them keeping balls at 85 in the warmest spot. I was actually responding to the other poster that said temps should never go above 85. Will you not agree that that info is incorrect? I am sure you have kept balls that low but I do not believe it to be the norm. If my snakes feel to warm while digesting they can move to the cool side. Isn't that the whole reason for having a gradient?
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John Vandegrift

Actually, no I'm not incorrect. You check with your "big guys" and you'll not find a single one that routinely keeps their "hot side" at or above 90. I promise. Where prey tell would a ball python find temps that high in the wild? (remember that they are nocturnal and burrowing....they would avoid temps that high at all costs).

The problem with a hatchling is that their insecurity will keep them in a temp zone that is not appropriate....defeating the concept of a thermal gradient...

I keep my hot spot between 89-92 and the ambient temp this time of year is between 83-87 during the day maybe 81-83 at night. 100's of bp's in the room they eat well, breed well, and never regurge. I know at least a few others that have bigger collections then me and keep similar temps. I try and keep the ambient at 85 but when it's 110-120 outside on a daily basis then add 100's of feet of heat tape, it's difficult.

Eric
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www.ESReptiles.com

I never said you were going to kill your snake by keeping your temp at 85. I was pointing out that when you said "There should be no part of the cage above about 85 or 86 degrees." you were incorrect. My snakes are very healthy and my temps are well above that. I am sure Erics snakes are doing just fine also.
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John Vandegrift

poster was referring to a hatchling. You do agree that hatchlings need cooler temps than adults, right?

All of my snakes are kept at the same temps. My BPs currently range from 60g to about 2500g. The heat tape is set at 95 and the surface of the cage where the BP sits is about 93 on average give or take a degree. Cool side at around 82-84. Again I am sure your snakes are fine at that temp. I only took issue with you saying no part of the cage should ever exceed 86.
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John Vandegrift

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will take steps to moderate the cage temps, starting with a switch to a flourescent light, and then either a rheostat or a thermostat on the UTH. I also moved his hide closer to the cool side of the tank. I briefly checked temp in the hide this morning and it was right at 80. Just to clarify, when you are measuring cage temps are you placing the temp probe in contact with the surface of the substrate, or just above it without touching?

since you're using a UTH w/o a thermostat, I'd check the surface (or even just below). Maybe even get a cheap temp gun. GL

I checked the temp last night by putting the probe for my digital thermometer directly on top of the paper towels over the UTH, and you were right...it is 100°. I'm going to get a thermostat on there ASAP.

and if its a glass tank the glass may be even hotter. I'm sure thats your problem. Remeber...lay off the food for about three weeks then try a smaller than normal meal.