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My field partner Will Bird and I have spent the last several years hoping to track down the population of northern pine snakes that inhabit the cave region of south central Ky. This is an isolated population centered around the Mammoth Cave NP area and very few records exist. Those that do are decades old and we were honetly beginning to wonder if the population there is now extinct.

During the last several years Will and I have made weekly trips to the area from March through November and even a number of visits each winter to deploy AC and to meet property owners. We have placed funnel traps on a number of private properties and laid out untold numbers of boards and metal. The first photo is of the habitat in which we were searching. Finally on Sunday evening at around 7:00 PM we encountered our first pine snake from this area. A severe storm was moving in and we were racing to this site hoping to beat the rain. With trees bent over from the wind and dark skies and lightening in the distance we were thrilled to discover a pine snake loosely coiled beneath the metal in the photo above.

The snake was a 44" male that was preparing to shed.

Another look at this very significant snake! We are very grateful to all those that have helped us along the way including the rural people of Ky, The Kentucky Herp Society, our friends at Ky dept of Fish and Wildlife and the National Park service and to Touchstone Energy for their continued support.

Thought you fellow Pit enthusiests may find this interesting!

Phil

Phil that's great! Let's hope there is a viable pop. out there.
Funny how mother nature can hide in plain sight,huh?
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

Thanks Mark! The fact that the snake we found is fairly young gives us hope that the snakes are reproducing and hopefully a stable population.

Phil

Phil,
Thank you for posting this awesome post!! I really enjoyed seeing these pics and hearing about your search for these beautiful snakes!

Billy

Thanks Billy. I thought some of you guys might like to hear a little bit about our project. We are just so glad we have some results now and confirmation that the snakes are still there.

Phil

phil...i'll be passin' through around 6/29, 30.....any chance we can meet up??...here's my cell 2159066420
bob assetto......how far are you from louieville??

Bob, I am working on the 29th and 30th. My off days are on Sunday/ Monday. If you are passing through on one of those days I would be glad to hook up with and maybe rouse up a few snakes.

Phil

Phil:
You and Will have to be congratulated and commended for the great work you have been doing with relict populations of northern pines in Kentucky. This is another great find.

Keep up the great work. Can't wait to hear more on your work.
Best regards
John

Thanks John! We feel truly honored to have been able to see this snake in the field and hope that this leads to many more discoveries with this population of pine snakes.

Phil

Phil:
You and Will have to be congratulated and commended for the great work you have been doing with relict populations of northern pines in Kentucky. This is another great find.

Keep up the great work. Can't wait to hear more on your work.
Best regards
John

>>
>>My field partner Will Bird and I have spent the last several years hoping to track down the population of northern pine snakes that inhabit the cave region of south central Ky. This is an isolated population centered around the Mammoth Cave NP area and very few records exist. Those that do are decades old and we were honetly beginning to wonder if the population there is now extinct.
>>
>>During the last several years Will and I have made weekly trips to the area from March through November and even a number of visits each winter to deploy AC and to meet property owners. We have placed funnel traps on a number of private properties and laid out untold numbers of boards and metal. The first photo is of the habitat in which we were searching. Finally on Sunday evening at around 7:00 PM we encountered our first pine snake from this area. A severe storm was moving in and we were racing to this site hoping to beat the rain. With trees bent over from the wind and dark skies and lightening in the distance we were thrilled to discover a pine snake loosely coiled beneath the metal in the photo above.
>>
>>The snake was a 44" male that was preparing to shed.
>>
>>Another look at this very significant snake! We are very grateful to all those that have helped us along the way including the rural people of Ky, The Kentucky Herp Society, our friends at Ky dept of Fish and Wildlife and the National Park service and to Touchstone Energy for their continued support.
>>
>>Thought you fellow Pit enthusiests may find this interesting!
>>
>>Phil

Good work guys, all of that must of really paid off..There is a nice population of pines here in North Alabama.. You dont see the often, but I have flipped a few, and usually walk some pine forests in the morning and see one.. And its cool how you guys see corns up in KY. Thats somthing you dont see to often, I was lucky to see two nice adults the other night crossing the same road ! well anyways, congrats on the pine !

Thanks for the kind words. I would love to hear more about surface activity with the pine snakes you see in Alabama. Do you see trends as to when they are most often seen as to the time of year? What conditions do you usually see them under AC in?

Thanks, Phil

Most the pines I have seen above ground were Early Spring to early summer, even a few speciems seen during October..Most the pines I see above the ground are between 8-12 o' clock. During the summer is usually when I find them under AC late in the evenings or even night..Im no expert on pines, I just live in one of the only few counties they are found. I have question also, whats some tips on seeing hogs in north alabama or anywhere, I just had a freind find one AOR in my county. I think im gonna have to start putting those funnel traps out lol.

Thanks for the insights on pine snakes. We have already discussed checking the metal we found the pine under in the evening again this week. Our funnel traps are very effective in catching hogs. Other than that my favorite method is to patrol the edges of pools in which many toads are breeding on a mild sunny day. Here the American toads breed first than the Fowlers so this period last quite a while. Seems the hogs are really attracted to these places for all the seasonal grubb. We also find a fair amount of them under tin. usually when they are preparing to shed.

Phil

Thanks alot ! went out hunting hogs yesterday, The habitat wasnt sandy at all, more like mixed hard wood forests surrounding a swamp , No live hogs, but found a HUGE fresh dor eastern hognose right in front of the swamp ! Its a start ! Oh yeah Phil, do you ever road cruise at night for corns ? That seems to be the only way I can find them lol, in the areas i find them in the roads at night, I flip tin, go through old chicken houss barns, ect. no luck, yesterday on that same road I found 2 adult male corns. Im just proud Im starting to find them here in North Bama.

Most of the hogs we find are actually in upland habitat. The pools they hunt around are usually seasonal and dry up by early summer. We also see them in all sorts of soil types and truly sandy areas are rare here. Of 120 or so live corns we have found here in Ky the past few years only a handfull were found on the crawl with only one actually AOR. The rest have all been under AC such as roofing tin and boards. In this same time we have found maybe 10 DOR's. Its interesting how different methods seem more effective in various places.

Phil

Hey phil, yes luck was with you that day. I was wondering if anyone has heard of or seen any of the mugitus that apperantly live in tennessee, I forget what co. but has anyone else heard of them.

I think an element of luck is often involed when finds like this are made. We do try to put ourselves at the right place at the right time and the rest is fate! Either way we are a couple of happy guys right now and are really encouraged. Its funny how we were talking earlier in the day about how we wished that the herp gods would smile upon us. I guess Venus alligned with Mars and it all came togther in a most magical way! It was as if the labors of the past several years had finally produced the desired result.

Are you referring to the Tennessee mugitus referrence from some of the older literature such as cited in Wright and Wright from Natchez Trace? I had the impression that may have been a Tennessee Valley specimen with a messy pattern that was identified as a southern pine base on coloration. I would be interested to hear if there was more on this.

Thanks, Phil

Yes phil that is (natchez trace) is the location I mentioned, but I guess nobody has found them there since.... but anyway.. I can relate to your passion in finding these pines up there in the southern extent of their range and I too hunt for the pines in the southern most extent of their range, probaly more than anyone ever has, but my passion is for mugitus, their color and pattern is unique from the pines offered in the current pet trade at least that I have seen occuring south of tampa, and I spend all my free time (for the last 15 years) hunting only in the areas where pines have been seen or found recently, and in 15 years I went from seeing two to five sheds on the ground every spring to not seeing a shed in 3 years and I used to see at least one pinesnake pr. year now I see a "doop" once every other year (a doop is when you drive around a corner while looking toward the road side where tortoise holes are abundant and all you see is the 20 " of pinesnake doop back into his hole...(doop) but I spend alot of time hiking and inspecting holes and walking marshlands and looking thru bionuclers for the pre doop position and I can tell you and the state game officals their not just being secretitive their gone, atleast south of the range where they all have spots on their heads, I see no tracks in the sand, no sheds.....anyway goodluck with your relic. JB

Will & Phil,
Wow!!!! I just did a BACK-FLIP! A Caves pinesnake! I'm surprised you did'nt both simultaneously get struck by lightning! Many congrats and thanks to you both for your efforts and dedication in helping to champion the cause of studying and preserving these snakes which are uncommon everywhere at BEST, but doubly, triply so in Kentucky!
Sincere regards,
Mike Collalto

Thanks so much for sharing our enthusiasm! No doubt it was one of those moments that only happens a few times in a lifetime. It seemed that all the accumulated expenses, time spent away from home, days in the scorching sun, tick bites and briar cuts were all very much worth it in one sudden instant! We are just so thrilled to know this population of pine snakes represents a real entity.

Phil