Reptile & Amphibian Forums

is anyone else surprised by the prices of 06 spiders? im seeing females AND males going for under 2K and it looks like the 06 prices are getting lower and lower as more 06 hatchlings enter the market... IMO this is not a good sign of things to come in terms of BP prices, especially when talking about co-doms (i dont even want to say anything about the $400 pastels ive seen for sale). the spiders are so popular and have proven to have awesome potential when mixed into other morphs and yet it seems to be one of the most unstable in terms of price...

just my $0.02

When there are 1000 spiders produced, and there are only 800 buyers, hypothetically, the price will come down. I think a few years ago, people bred their male spider to any female they could find, and now there are plenty out there for sale. I do not have one, but plan on getting a few females to make Hypo spiders, did not think it would be cheaper to buy female spiders vs. female ghosts, but it is.

Dave

Dave, Im a little surprised too as how how much spiders have droped especially with the combos they have produced. Although in my opinion it would probably be better to get a female ghost, if you get and breed a spider male to your ghost girls you could easily produce your hypo spiders soon....plus if you have het girls would make sence.
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Brandon Nixon

Brandon, I guess it depends on what I produce this year. If I produce a few ghost females, I will keep them and possibly get a male spider, but I do not want a boatload of spiders, from spider x normal females either. I think I will stick with my plan and get a couple of spider females, if you knew what I could get them for, you would say go for it. That way, I can get to my goal of hypo spiders, with spider het hypo by products Then do Mojave x spider, etc. I really have no need right now for a male spider, but you know how we all change our minds...........By the way, did you all see the "new" Mojave prices?

Dave

Just looked up some prices pretty surprised....wouldnt think they would go that low although I have yet to get into ball pythons I just keep a couple high end boas might get some bps when I get back into the states.
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Brandon Nixon

i understand that by laws of economics (supply demand) that price will inevitably go down in this type of industry i just did not expect it to be this quick... at this rate by this time next year spiders will be below $1000.

i suppose these apparently low prices are actually a more accurate representation of what juvenile spiders are really worth, but again, im surprised at how quickly they came down in price. i guess that's the nature of the Ball Game...

i cant wait to buy a calico for under $1000... what do you think? two years from now? three? probably more like 4-5 but you hopefully see my point...

i believe the spider price is too high, sure they look cool but ive heard they have problems with shaking all the time and some are so bad they died.
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jake

my addiction:
1.1? normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1? amelenistic corn snake (zyklon)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

im actually not the big of a spider fan either but you can't deny that the spider has been the other half of some AWESOME combos... the head shaking thing really bothers me which is why id never get into a spider/spider-combo projects but this morph produces some really cool babies nonetheless (hypo-spiders, pied-spider, pastel-spider, etc).

in any case, i think we are in the minority on this issue and in reality most people absolutely love the spiders and are just waiting to add one to their collections. despite this great demand the spider prices continue to plummet...

lower pries are good for those who want the sweet looking snakes, but bad for the breeders. so you can get into morphs but by the time you can breed them you cant really make any money. but pieds have certainly held ther own. like my girlfriend said im just 15 years too late in the industry to make a lot of money like they did in the past

"The spiders have been so popular"

Exactly why they're dropping in price. Everyone and their grandmother is breeding them, flooding the market with available offspring.
Personally, I don't mind the drop. It just means when the time comes that I want to make Bumblebees, I'll be able to afford a spider.

I think once people see all the new combos, they'll start holding back more spider offspring and prices will climb again.
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-Man fears the beast in the Wolf because he does not understand the beast within himself.

you are all correct in the fact that the market is flooded with spiders.that doesnt change the fact that they are still a very cool morph.i own 1 nerd line male,now that the prices are dropping maybe i can afford a female...lol

Just love to see them hatch.From a marketing point of view,as the price drops more buyers become avilable.

I am sure how others will respond but I am actaully beginging to feel like all the new morphs and combos are not going to help the BP market value BUT dilute the BP market value. Combos only serve a niche market of personal taste versus the niche market of having a valuable rare offering. In my opinion a combo is not rare. Rare is having the first "Platinum" or "Albino". Combos made from animals which now number in the thousands, are NOT rare. It may be rare by definition when you are the first one to do it, but when 1000 more can be made in one breeding season, that is not rare. We are already at time when pairs of snakes that can make a combo/super are only 20% the cost of the combo/super trying to be made. In that market a super bought in 2006 will only be worth small fraction of its value in 2 years. Does any one else feel that the surge of new African morphs and the unending introduction of new combos only serve to make potential customers feel that existing or even new morphs are not as valuable? Just a thought. Combos are cool but I do not think they are the salvation for keeping ball python morph values in the tens of thousand dollar range.

Chris

However if one wants to produce say...a solid purple snake?

They can either buy a pair of cinnys het for caramel...Or a caramel pair and a pair of cinnys....Or a het caramel male and a male cinny,and numerous normal females.

Fist option takes time...but the last option would take forever...and time is money.

How many of the dream combinations have not been made yet?...and how many new dream combinations will we have when we get them?

The yet to be seen "cow ball"?(super black pastelXpied)Is another of these combinations that will probably be well sought after soon enough.
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

The thing is...combos are a form of advertisement. Almost no one is going to fork over $20000.00 for a bumble bee. However, when I see a combo like that come out I think "OH MY FREEKIN GOD, I need a pastel and a spider so that I can have one in my collection," I really don't think any one is producing large numbers of them, they are just making combos to sho us what can be created with the old new morphs so that we become interested in them again.
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I have Balls!

especially with codom combos. Showing them at that price also leads to the idea that anyone could be selling them for that price in a few years. Then people will still pay higher prices for the older pastels and spiders and such.

2 years later your left wondering why nobody wants your bees but your spiders and pastels are still selling, but at only 1/10 of what you paid.

1/10 is a huge understatement, it's probably 1/2 to 1/3 except for the first year of huge production and that's probably 1/4 of the original purchase price. A perfect example of this is the spider itself. Many people bought into them at 15k-20k and then mass produced them and the price bombed to sub 5k. Now let's look at it this way, if everyone that mass produced them made 5 clutches with 6 eggs in each, that's 30 babies 15 of which were spiders. That's still $75k worth of babies which is a pretty good year in my book. Now you bought a spider last year and paid $4000 for a male. Next year babies are going for $1000-$1500, all you have to produce is 2 clutches and you made a profit. Now throw that spider male with an albino, pastel and ghost females and you just doubled your profit for that year if you only sale half the babies. it's all about how you market yourself, your animals and how smart of a breeder you are with your pairings and how you choose your breeding stock. Remember it's always smart to buy into the most expensive/rare project that you can afford if you want to cash in on it. Me personally, my wife and I were able to buy into the vanilla project which very very very few people have and next year should be producing vanilla's and crosses that only a handfull of other people can make, now that's a solid investment as long as the crosses come out looking like we hope and expect. And even if the vanilla crosses aren't breath-taking the super vanilla crosses will undoubtably blow any pastel cross out of the water and with the scarcity to command the price they will be worth.
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Josh Hutto
JKReptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.0 Spider Ball python (Ballroom pythons south)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
1.1 graz pastel female
1.6 05 normal bp's
0.6 04 normal bp's
2.5 adult normal bp's (some need breeding to see if norm)
4 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrior
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
0.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

If snake math was as easy as getting out the calculator and adding up the guarranteed profits....there should be a couple hundred millionaire breeders at the next Daytona show. I hope they have upgraded the parking for all the Gold plated Hummers that will be there this year Don't count your banana clown axanthic pieds before they hatch!!!!!!!!

J/K

Chris