Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I live in Fort worth tx, and have caught four rat snakes this summer two of witch i still have. I'm amazed in the color difference. I keep corns, ball pythons, and red tails and am news to rat snakes. I assume they are Texas rats by their grey heads. No arrow markings like the corns. One is light brown with darker brown saddles. The other grey with black saddles. The grey is I think just a hatchling 10"-12". Its belly is almost black not the checkerboard i would expect. Do their belly's change with age. What is the difference between Elphe obseleta obsoleta and elphe obseleta lindeimeri, are they both considered Texas Rats? sorry for the long post, any info on these babys would be appreciated

I can't tell you about their colors, but I do know that Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta is the black rat snake, not a Texas rat. It's found mostly east and northeast of Texas and has the widest range of any obsoleta. Intergrades occur where the range of the Texas rat and the black rat intersect.

Hope this helps,
Andy

Thanks for the reply. After I made this post I thought maybe a cross. This area is on the border line for many breeds.

You may well have some degree of intergrading, although in the Metroplex they should be primarily Texas Rats. I'm just to your north, and here in the intergrade zone (across much of southern central and western OK), the variation in pattern strength and coloration is almost astonishing. Farther north and East from here, I believe most areas from northeast OK onward have the nearly-all-black adults. But here, I have yet to see even a 5-6 foot adult that doesn't have some amount of blotching remaining. And if all that isn't confusing enough, there are huge differences between young and adults. Newborns of both subspecies are strongly blotched, but the pattern fades with age. The amount of fading varies from fairly little in Texas Rats to nearly all of it in true Black Rats. And somewhere in between here in intergrad country. I'm not sure if there is much change in ventral (belly) pattern with age, but I don't know why there wouldn't be.

If you go to the FAQ page here, you can find a link to "Herps of the Dallas/FtWorth Area", which has some pics showing some of the variation in Texas Rats.

michaelb

Thanks for the reply michaelb. Some very usefull info. I checked out the site you recommended. The adults look just like the ones i have kept and observed. Like you say I have never seen an adult without some blotching. they do range from light brown to almost black. Ive seen orange to almost red spots on the sides. This little fellow does have me stumped though. I'm sure he is a texas rat because of the markings and the color of his head, but he also has a short slightly upturned nose almost like a hog nose. Also has a blunt tail instead of the pointed i'm used to seeing. Hmm guess thats what makes herping so interesting. Thanks again.

Jim

Now you've got me wondering. Can you post a pic of the little one? A young rat snake of that size, either Texas Rat or Black Rat, should have some amount of pattern on the top of the head including a stripe through the eye region that ends at the mouth line. The head will fade to the more typical dark grayish or black that is typical of adults of both subspecies as they become juveniles or young adults.

The stubby tail simply may have been broken off by a predator. But the short upturned snout is making me think this could be a young hognose snake. The snout and the extrordinary behavior of a hognose usually are enough to confirm it. Hognoses are known for flattening their heads, somewhat like a cobra, when molested. If that doesn't work, they roll over and play 'possum. To make matters worse, the Eastern Hognose also exhibits a lot of variation in pattern, especially color. But it doeas bear some superficial resemblance in pattern to the Texas Rat. A pic would really help. michaelb