Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I want to share my joy of today. I have black rat snakes (Elaphe obsoletta) that are being born after 52 day incubations. Much sooner that I was tinking. As I see, I have three different phases in that clucht. If somebody know well that race, and is capable of help me identifiate them, I will appreciate.

The mother was sold to me as a ‘’rust’’ phase. She have a light purple reflect ans a lot a red on the ventral scales. The father is a bubblegum and seem to me as a ordinary albino (or a orange albino).

9 of the baby are like anerystic corn snake. Some of them have red ventral scales. The rest (6)look like albino, with a lot of red on the belly(no ventral pattern) but the eyes are light yellowish brown. Theses puzzle me. Do rust phase born red and finish black or do they stay red?

The mother:

and some babys:

I want to note than the eyes of the red snakes are not red, but a light brownish yellow.

Thank for your help.

It appears that your girl was het for albino. So you have albinos (some het. for rusty) and normals some het for albino and some het for rusty.




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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

Another photo of one of the babys. No red eyes! Can a ratsnake can be hypo?

PS: I have not understood how to put multiple photo on the same message.

To my knowledge there are no hypomelanistic black ratsnakes. Are you aware that black ratsnakes are born with a grey backround and develope the black as they age? That looks like a rusty to me. Maybe You albino is het rusty? I am not sure what goes into making a rusty (I thought it was leucistic which is codom?) But either way that baby is not amelanistic which is why it has no red eyes.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

What you have seems to be right for that breeding, the mother being a rusty would produce rusties in the clutch as it is a co dominant morph (only one parent has to carry it for it to be expressed in some of the babies) the father being an albino would mean that the babies will be heterozygous for albino but not express it. So that very nice looking rusty baby in the pic will also be het albino. As has also been mentioned the normal babies will look gray at first and get the black colour as they get older but they will also be het albino but not carry any rusty in them.

If I understood correctly, the baby snake on the picture should also exibit a augmentation of black pigmentation, as any normal babies, with aging? And should finaly look like the mother? I never see that last grow.

That is right, it will darken as it grows and eventually look like the mother/lose all pattern.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

they may not loose their blotches, here is a non albino bubblegum (Black/Yellow/Everglades Intergrade) het albino

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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez
Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

That is not bad looking for such a mutt.... I almost like it. It looks almost like a black rat with a corns pattern/colorations
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

are actually a cross between a cornsnake and a ratsnake. If so, your snake might be exhibiting the cornsnake side. Of course, cornsnakes ARE ratsnakes, but not all ratsnakes are cornsnakes. Just thought I should throw that last sentence in there, for anyone who wouldn't know.
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

Bubblegum Rats are an albino crossbreed of Black Rats and Everglades Rats. So it's not a hybrid, just a good looking mutt.

Interresting. It is possible to see if everglade blood are really present or the name given to me by the seller was inadequate.

Thank for everybody, I learn a lot.

mine where Black/yellow/everglades intergrades, I bred the albinos to an blotchless everglades rat (from dwight good)to further the orange influence and it worked out beautifully, I got out of this project a few years back, I will try to find the outcrossed pics if I can, I purchased them as "possible het albino", we'll they where, the first time I bred them I got albino bubblegums, interesting thing about them was the difference in appearence of the albino offspring, I think the dif shades of albinos had to do with the neonates background colors they would have had as normal snakes, as some non albino babies where various shades of brown/orange as they did their color change.

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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez
Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

this snake has since died but did produce twice before she died...

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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez
Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

That's a very beautiful specimen. Sorry to hear it died.

I agree too. That is a beautiful snake. I had not fully realised how much that specie offer different appearences.

I think too many people has gone to the corn snake to the detriment of other interesting snakes. One of the thing I like the most about obsoletta is their very prehensile tail. My male like to climb a lot. I had not offer a very tall vivarium to my female but I will correct that in a near future.

Do you have any more pictures of her? Could you please post them?

To post multiple images in the same thread, go to wherever you're hosting them(photobucket, kingsnake gallery, etc..), and open the image. Right click on it, and find "Properties". It should list a location. It would look like, "http://www....." Copy that, then type [ i m g ] [ / i m g ] in the message, and paste the address between the ] [, but leave out all the spaces between everything, so the [..... all runs together.
You can post as many pictures as you want that way.

Here's an example-
[ img ]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/cixelsydmi/Animals/brindlehand2.jpg[ /img ]
without spaces in the [ img ] [ /img ] turns into:

(that's my brindle black rat)