Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The AZA has a new Antivenom Index online (forget it, Password protected)and declined Miami Dades request to be added to the resource. One would think it the AZA would be happy to make the vast quantity and variety of A/V Miami Dades stocks available online. I guess not...

If you would like to voice your opinion to them...

Association of Zoos and Aquariums
8403 Colesville Rd.
Suite 710
Silver Spring, MD 20910-3314
Phone: 301-562-0777
Fax: 301-562-0888

Al
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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

Al, thats hardly new, that the AZA has an on-line Antivenin Index.

I will introduce you to the people in charge of the AZA Antivenin Index this week in San Antonio and you can address your concerns with them. But a blanket statement that the AZA refused Miami Dades program, is I believe without merit.
See ya this week!

Randal

Hi Randal:

Yes, the fact they have an Online index is not so news worthy. The fact they are not including the largest stockpile of A/V in the USA is of some importance.

I look forward to chatting with Don and others about this issue and the North Eastern Bank.

See you tomorrow afternoon

Cheers!

Al
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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

Al,
Are you saying that Al Cruz and Miami-Dade stocks more AV than ALL the AZA zoo's? Hmmm, didn't know that.
Randal

>>Are you saying that Al Cruz and Miami-Dade stocks more AV than ALL the AZA zoo's?

He's saying they stock more than any one zoo, not more than all combined if that's what you mean.

I can't speak to whether that's correct or not since I don't have access to the AZA list, but knowing what Miami-Dade has it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Larry:
Again, you mis-read or misunderstood what Al or I said in this post.

"The fact they are not including the largest stockpile of A/V in the USA is of some importance". (Al's quote)Al didn't say a single zoo. He inferred, ALL zoo's. Go back and read his post.

I didn't mis-interpet what he said,

"He's saying they stock more than any one zoo, not more than all combined if that's what you mean." (your quote).(Larry F's quote)

Al said,

Posted by: phobos at Tue Jun 20 15:09:50 2006

Hi Randal:

Yes, the fact they have an Online index is not so news worthy. The fact they are not including the largest stockpile of A/V in the USA is of some importance.

I look forward to chatting with Don and others about this issue and the North Eastern Bank.

See you tomorrow afternoon

Cheers!

Al

Al is saying they have more AV than anyone, (including zoo's) in the U.S.A.

You said: "He's saying they stock more than any one zoo, not more than all combined if that's what you mean."
Larry, bro, please read and understand before you let your fingers do the walking.
I am a AZA member and have access to their AV acct. and also to Al Cruz's acct. Not even close dude!
Best,
Randal

>>Larry:
>>Again, you mis-read or misunderstood what Al or I said in this post.

What he said is clear. What you said was ambiguous. Thus the phase "if that's what you mean."

>>"The fact they are not including the largest stockpile of A/V in the USA is of some importance". (Al's quote)Al didn't say a single zoo. He inferred, ALL zoo's. Go back and read his post.

I have. Four times, just in case. You misunderstood, as he has since pointed out.

>>Larry, bro, please read and understand before you let your fingers do the walking.

Good advice.

Larry,
You are right.
I am done with you.
You just don't get it.
Randal Berry

I don't think "the largest stockpile" means compared to all the other stockpiles combined.

I understood Al's point. Miami Dade stocks a larger more complete selection of A/V than any one zoo in the US. There's no denying that.

The A/V index is useful for zoos in a region to know who's keeping what, nearby, but to outright refuse to list the Miami A/V bank in the index, is likely a decision due to Miami Dade not being AZA members. Its just like the AMerican Express Card "Membership has its privileges".

What's of more values, is that Miami Dade is manned by extremely competent and experienced paramedics.

Matt,
Pls go back and read my post to Larry.
Al did NOT say a single zoo.
Read ALL of the posts btw Al and myself. I quoted Al verbatim.

Randal

Hi:

Of course I'm not saying that, Miami Dade has the largest stock pile and variety in one location. Certainly, all together AZA member institutions have a large amount too. The point is adding Miami Dade to the index would improve the stockpile not degrade it.

Please, tell me how this additional resource would be a bad thing? I can't think of any.

Al
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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

I can only guess... but, the AZA has a stricted set of standards they have set and they don't flex them. Perhaps miami-dade doesn't meet these (this may not even have to be related to the a/v itself.)

Ian

Or just politcal nonsense...

What a joke..

I suggest that everyone just relax and have that polite conversation to get to the bottom of this rather than speculate.

It could easily turn out to be their insurance coverage etc.

Here in Ohio, Hospitals WILL NOT use any antivenin that a private keeper posesses in the event of a bite. If you are stocking your own antivenin, you are practically wasting your money. There is only one exception to that rule, and that is if any local hospitals do not have the type of antivenin your bite requires, then they can use it as a last resort, however, in general hospitals within this state all carry a select variation of antivenins and each hospital has a copy of the list that each hospital carries. In the event of a bite, they simply contact that particular hospital and have the bite victim air-lifted to that hospital. Due to their insurance coverages, they are not allowed to use any antivenin provided by the keeper. I know this is a bit different than the AZA/Miami Dade affiliation, but it could possibly be related to this issue.

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

"There is only one exception to that rule, and that is if any local hospitals do not have the type of antivenin your bite requires, then they can use it as a last resort"

They must use it as a last resort in the event of any exotic snakebite, or get it from a zoo or AV bank. Simply because there isn't a hospital that would keep anything but CroFab or Wyeth.
Neither of which would mean squat in the case of say, an urutu or rhino bite.

"They must use it as a last resort in the event of any exotic snakebite, or get it from a zoo or AV bank. Simply because there isn't a hospital that would keep anything but CroFab or Wyeth.
>>Neither of which would mean squat in the case of say, an urutu or rhino bite."

According to a couple of doctors that I know, hospitals here in Ohio all carry a variety of antivenins, including but not limited to crofab as you stated earlier. Most Ohio hospitals carry exotic snake antivenin as well, but they all usually carry different types instead of each hospital carrying ALL types of antivenin, they have a system set in place for the majority of snakebites. IF the nearest hospital, however, doesn't carry the particular antivenin that you are looking for (ex. Costa Rican Polivalent) then you can contact that hospital and request that they stock the antivenin, and you can pay for it. However, if there is a nearby hospital that already carries it, and you stock it yourself and bring it with you in the event of a bite, then they will refuse to use your antivenin and instead airlift you to the nearest hospital which already carries that particular type of antivenin.

Chris
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U.A.P.P.E.A.L.
Uniting A Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League
www.uappeal.org

Chris:

Please check your facts. Ohio hospitals call the Kentucky Reptile Zoo when they need exotic A/V. I am with Jim Harrison at the ISH meeting in San Antonio. He said they DO NOT STOCK anything but CroFab and contact him if they need serum since he stocks nearly as much as Miami Dade. Ohio hospitals kill more snakebite victims because they administer CroFab for bites not covered NOT COVERED by that serum. Shame on them! CroFab for an Urutu & Rhino Bites. Crofab barely works on the venoms it's entended to neutralize.

Al
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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

Al, you got my point!

snip "Here in Ohio, Hospitals WILL NOT use any antivenin that a private keeper posesses in the event of a bite."

The only thing I have to say is that according to the Food and Drug Administration, it is illegal for a person to possess antivenom not produced in the USA as they are all considered experimental treatments. This could be why, the hospital cannot use it if you show up with your own stash of AV.
For a person to legally import AV from another country, you need a doctor who is not only willing to hold but administer the AV in case of a bite for it to be legal (depending on the species of snake involved you may also need to contact USF@W) to fill out the application for the FDA. You will also need to contact the USDA due it being derived from a horse, sheep, rabbit, etc to get the applicable permits.

Ed