Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What can a person do about the plight of the petshop critters?

While in a neighborhood store today I saw many horrifying things including: over 30 very emaciated sickly looking sav babies in a ten gal aquarium (some already dead), about 15 ball python babies in another ten gallon, a few savs that were about ten inches in an approx 60 gal, all extremely thin and inactive with absolutely no feeding response(the ten gallon with the baby savs was actually INSIDE this aquarium as well), another ten gal totally overrun with baby beardies...a couple that had passed, lay on the papertowels under the eggcrate. There were lots of other very over crowded tanks with other species as well. Oh yeah, thye also had an argentine red tegu housed with a black throat! agh.

I asked one of the owners about the condition of the animals and he said that they arrive that way, and he does his best to worm them all and get weight on them. I asked him if he really had concern for animals, then why did he continue to buy from the wholesalers...he couldnt answer but simply said that he was busy, and if I wanted to buy something then he could help me.

Im frustrated. I wish these places cared about the animals they sell. "Connecting people with animals" is their motto, with hearts and puppies all over the sign. Makes you all warm inside, huh?

The first thing Im gonna do is try and get pics. Then get more people involved. What can the humane society do if the pet store has the defense that "they come in looking like this"?
Dont get me wrong, Im not just trying to shut this place down, but I just wish they would make some changes.

The reptile supplier that I do go to, and completely support is actually right down the street from the "bad" petstore, and they ONLY buy captive bred or adopt animals. In contrast to the other one, they get much less buisness, despite their more humane practices. I guess people would rather buy a sick imported 14 dollar sav, than a nice healthy, well cared for captive bred 300 dollar argus.

I left feeling so frustrating and ill, but moved to want to make some changes happen. They are ALWAYS packed with customers, and it really makes me wonder if people even care, or if they just turn their heads and look the other way when confronted by this cruelty.

Any suggestion? How does one person make a difference?

thanks,
Michelle

Sadly, I have seen a lot of what you have. reptiles are very misunderstood animals and most (pry close to all) petstores have no idea what they or what to do with it. the guy at this store tho.... even if the animals came in emaciated, he can still give them more room, get the dead ones out of the cage, and learn about what he is selling. you should call the cruelty people at the very least they can warn him, maybe shake him up a little. by the way, does he only have reptiles or does he have cats, dogs etc. if so, how does he treat them?

I know this is frustrating but what can be done depends on your local authorities. Make complete notes about what you saw. If you can go back and discreetly get photos, try to do that. Then make a complaint to your local County Animal Control. If there is no such department, see if there is a local SPCA. Be prepared to educate these folks in basic reptile husbandry since they don't normally deal with herps. You may want to do some research into your state's Animal Cruely Laws. Here is a link.

http://www.imom.org/voices/laws.htm

DECOMPRESSION CHAMBER???!!!

ALASKA STATUTES
Title 11. Criminal Law.
Chapter 61. Offenses Against Public Order.
Article 1. Riot, Disorderly Conduct, and Related Offenses.
Sec. 11.61.140 Cruelty to animals.

(a) A person commits the crime of cruelty to animals if the person

(1) intentionally inflicts severe and prolonged physical pain or suffering on an animal;

(2) recklessly neglects an animal and, as a result of that neglect, causes the death of the animal or causes severe pain or suffering to the animal; or

(3) kills an animal by the use of a decompression chamber.

(b) It is a defense to a prosecution under (a)(1) or (2) of this section that the conduct of the defendant

(1) conformed to accepted veterinary practice;

(2) was part of scientific research governed by accepted standards; or

(3) was necessarily incident to lawful hunting or trapping activities.

(c) In this section, "animal" means a vertebrate living creature not a human being, but does not include fish.

(d) Cruelty to animals is a class A misdemeanor.

Yes, I too have seen things like this in local pet stores. Even though in my area there is a really respectable pet center that specializes in captive bred reptiles and saltwater fish, it seems that people would rather buy a 40.00 sick Bearded Dragon from petco instead of a real nice healthy fat one for 90.00. I have seen many dying or dead reptiles in this chain operation’s stores.

The same thing goes for reptile shows. Sure, there are some really great breeders like NERD and the like, selling beautiful healthy cb monitors and pythons, but there is always other sellers there with tables full of skinny sick reptiles like imported sub adult rudicollis, blue tails, dumerils that look like they are completely dehydrated. There always seems to tons of sick WC chameleons at these events, like fully grown WC Meller's chameleons (which always die when purchased as WC adults) as well. There should be a law against this, and I strongly feel that there should be permits in each state to keep reptiles, so that people who buy them for the wrong reason, like "it looks cool" would refrain from purchasing them just to let them die. A license to own these animals would help keep them with responsible keepers, and there should be tighter laws and higher costs for imports. This way, people would be more prone to purchase from CB stock.

About that pet store, call the humane society and ask them to visit their operation. If they find evidence of animal cruelty and poor living conditions, they will do something about it.

These laws will not just single out the pet stores/ shows,hobbyist,etc. that have poor husbandry practices but will blanket us all. One reason why humane society wanted to ban all private herp owner ship.
When these animals are caught the catcher waits until they have a certain volume/# of captives before they are exported( due to other laws governing export) so during this time many animals become ill for various
reasons. These exporters have limited space so overcrowding is common in some cases. The animals that do make it to the states are then resubjected to overcrowding & in some cases lack of water/food to keep down
cost for the wholesalers. I worked for one such wholesaler for a day but quite when it was ?ed about why I gave the herps "so" much food. I am very familar w/ the animal welfare act but sadly that covers mainly
domestic animals w/ exotics still being a majority of indotherms (warm blooded).
Exporters,dealers, & wholesalers ,in some (not all) cases, have to keep down overhead so the animal gets improper care.
If these situations are reported some may use it to fuel a complete reptile ban as opposed to the teaching of proper herp husbandry.

Remember they are in it for profit usually plus the volume of animals they have may not allow them to keep track of the animals husbandry so it gets overlooked. bottom line there are are various reason why these things occur.
We have pets they have a business quality vs. quanity.

Its hard to make changes in an industry that is so mysterious to so many people. Not only that, the importers and wholesalers want to keep it that way. You ask a pet shop owner where he bought his herps, you think hes gonna say Strictly Reptiles? You go to Strictly and ask them where they get their animals, and do you think youre gonna get an answer? I know VERY little about the whole scene, but I know its dirty. If too much intervention is made than pretty soon we wont be able to keep any of our monitors. However if there are NO regulations, than the animals are going to suffer. I dont have many answers, but I think that we shouldnt just stand by and not do anything. I think the best thing for everyone is knowledge. As much knowledge about what is really going on. Im not sure what the best channel we have for getting the word out is. This web site, conventions, the croc hunter. Theres got to be more. We gotta DO more. We all have lives, jobs, families etc. Its hard to find time. Its hard to make time. Its just plain hard. I think it can be done. I tip my hat to breeders like frank retes, hes doing a really good thing. If more attention can be shown on individuals like this to the public, and comparatively on the wholesale scene, maybe the public will understand. Maybe animal rights agencies would be more apt to support those of us with good inentions. Then maybe everyone would get what they deserve. The good, the bad, and yes...the wholesale importers.

-Michelle

The reason for them not telling you where the animals came from is simple. They are afraid you'll buy from them. Why would they give you the exporters name or the importers name? More then likely you would not import yourself but it can be done. The middle man wants to keep you coming to him and not go over him to get your animals.

Well I thought about getting a healthy one or buying a sick one from another breeder at the expo, so I picked the sick one and he is nice,fat, and healthy. If that happens for a while get pics and take it to the police they will send it to animal crulty (can't spell) or they will go in and do something about it. The mall was like that here and they are no longer aloud to sell big reptiles.
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irtBikeBoy50@aol.com">DirtBikeBoy50@aol.com

In many (if not most) U.S. states pet stores are inspected and regulated by the Department of Agriculture. If so, there should be a certificate posted on the wall. If you can't find it, ask. Get pictures of the animals if you can, then write down the information on the certificate. Tell the manager that you are writing to the Department of Agriculture about the store's poor animal husbandry and ask for the address of the store's regional corporate headquarters (if it's a chain). If it's not a chain, ask if the manager would like to be copied on your letter. When you write the letter, write it objectively (in other words, list what the store is doing incorrectly and why it is unhealthy; stay away from name calling and any language you wouldn't find in a business letter). If you can get friends to go in and do the same, it would help. I did this with a local pet store to try to force them to quit selling iguanas and savannah monitors (some of which were emaciated and on death's doorstep by their looks). I had already argued with the manager several times and threatened to involve local animal welfare groups, and he was arrogant, unwavering, and basically blew me off. The day I copied the information off the Dept. of Agriculture certificate, I finally got his attention. I still don't know if my threat was responsible, but a week later the store (a chain) had no reptiles. When they finally did carry reptiles again, their husbandry practices were good, and the reptiles were all lizards that would stay fairly small and easy to care for. Good luck!

Im glad to hear of some positive changes being made out there. Good for you in standing up to that guy, that took a lot of spunk on your part. You handled the situation really well, and are really a great example to people of what good can come of persistance and will power.
I needed that kind of encouragement. Thanks for some really good suggestions.

Keep it up,
Michelle

Where do you live? I encountered the same thing here at a pet shop. Almost to the tee the stories were the same. Including a large (around 2-3ft) BT being housed with a Tegu. But in the middle of their cage was also a 10gal that house about ten baby Savs. Had I been a baby montior and everyday I had to look out into those eyes. Damn!!! For the pet store that I'm talking about I also talked with the owner but he said a different story. This man has been in business for years! I used to go into the store so much I new everyone there including the owner. I stop going when the way he started taking care of the animals dramaticly changed. He went from having great habitats to now the monitors and snakes have one light, a small water bowl, and their substrate is the rabbit pellets or that shrivled up paper crap. I have bought animals off him to save their lives but now there's just too many. I have even "cut deals" and told him give it to me for five to ten bucks. The animal is going to die here and the cost for me to save was going to be over 150.00
Basically what I'm saying is that I feel you pain and share in your tears for the poor things.
Christine :>~

Hello,
Im in the Sacramento area. Ive been frequenting this petstore for the last couple years, and actually used to shop there. After I found Reptile Outlet(the "good" store that I mentioned before) I havent bought anything from them since. Occasionally I stop in just to look around though. I think that this is the worst Ive ever seen them. Of course its been about 5 months since Ive been in last. I havent seen a pet shop with nearly as bad conditions since "Jungle Land" was open. That was one of my first reality checks as a child. I was about 9 when I first learned what reptile importing/ wholesaling was all about. I was there to buy a redheaded agama, and was eagerly waiting as the truck pulled up with the shipment. Im not exactly sure what I expected to see, but what I did see, shocked and disturbed me...to the point of not buying my agama. The guy started pulling out potato sacks from boxes, with the most sickly, skinny looking things in them. These sacks were PILED on top of one another. Many of the lizards were dead.
Even though that pet store is long gone, 15 years later, this memory is still frozen in my head.
At that time I didnt fully understand the whole picture. I knew I didnt like what I saw, but I never really told anyone or thought to try and stop it from happening. Now Im old enough, and hopefully brave enough to stand up and speak up, and maybe even make a difference.
Agama power!!
-Michelle

Walmart customer- Hi! I couldn't help but notice that all of your merchandise is defective. For example, all your vacuum cleaners are missing parts and the bikes are just kept in a big rusted pile on the floor.

Walmart employee- That's the way the stuff comes in. Look, I'm really busy, do you want to buy something or what?

Walmart customer- Well, when you put it like that I'll take three of everything.

(My point) In what other industry is 'I got it in like that' a valid excuse for selling crappy stuff to uninformed customers? Then why do SO many people in the pet industry think that it gets them off the hook? His inventory is still HIS responsibility. I really don't have any advice for you, but I think we share a desire to line these people up and kick them sharply in the shins.

Nice compare everything to Wal-Mart LOL Go see there fish section sometime

Anyways it is true many animals come in in poor conditions. Basically why wouldn't they? They are sold cheap from collectors and trappers who go out in the native land and capture them. Once they have enough of them they sell them to an exporter who then in turn takes orders from importers. They get fed and dewormed IF the importer is buying from a good exporter that really cares the difference is in the prices. Being driven by money most of them go with the sickly cheap stuff. Not to mention sometimes to get the good stuff they want you to buy 100 or more of this piddly stuff noone even buys. Ok so now the animals are packaged and shipped. Stress kills off some of them on the way over, the rest get skinny and imaciated from stress, parasties, and poor conditions. The importer or wholesaler then goes through the bags, they have gotten so many of each they have no room so they pile them up in cages. They offer them for a cheap price hoping they will sell fast. They got them cheap so they figure if they lose some it is ok. A dealer then comes along and buys from them and again they get moved and put into small cages piled up until they get you the consumer. So you can imagine all this bouncing around and price changes has alot to do with what your seeing.

This is not always the case but if they have a real cheap price on there animals then you can bet that is what is going on. If the animal is higher priced and looks good then it probly came from a good exporter, was taken care of at the importers, and then sold as a healthy animal. Price is then more cause time and money went into the animals.

The bad scenario goes on often basically the thing fueling it would be Money. So buy from reputable people and support them instead of supporting the ones who see $$$$$.

I would say sorry to those I offended, but to bad if you are offended then your not taking care of your animals.

Just my added wisdom (what little I have LOL)

My Walmart gets their fish from the same supplier as Petco, and they're really not that bad. I actually got my goldfish from there. The dog food section is a gallery of horrors, though. People FEED that stuff to their PETS?