Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this has been asked many times, but please answer once again...how much time in natural sun (outdoors) is necessary to not worry too much about him getting it inside.

Cyrus is constantly wanting out of his cage to his Gym. I think he is skipping meals and is obviously not getting his UVB if he is hanging off a vine from my ceiling! The outside weather is better so I can stick him in the sun more often. I sort of recall 2 hours/week will suffice?

thanks
lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

I've always reads that as little as 20 minutes daily in lghtly filtered sunlight satisfies their UVB requirements. So that is close to the 2 hours weekly that you mentioned. Remember to cut back on any of your supplements containing D3 if you are providing natural sunlight. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

Hey Diane,

Thanks, I think we are close. Thanks for the D3 reminder, too! I dust his crickets, but frankly by the time he gets them I think they have little on them so I try to do my best in gutload.

I took him out today and placed him in an apple tree (I can reach any branch so he's not going anywhere) and misted him with the hose, then he hung to dry (lol) before we took a walk around the neighborhood.

How are your guys doing??
lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

There is lots of information in this site about sunlight/UVB...
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/whatreptilesneed.htm

You have to search through this site to find information about panther chameleons...but its generally thought that they are not real sun-worshippers.

again i am not an expert

but i barely provide any uvb for my cham and it is growing fine.

the uvb is necessary for obtaining/producing d3 which in turn allows the reptiles to use calcium

if you just bypass that and supplement the d3 in the diet, then u should have a healthy cham?

i've been using miner-all(the one designed for indoor reptiles) that supplies d3 and calcium

so long as you supplement with d3 and calcium, i wouldnt worry too much about uvb exposure... again i could be wrong

There is no doubt that chameleons can be raised without it. I know chameleons that have never had a single ray of UVB and are doing great.

UVB doesn't produce VitD3 so much as it is the key factor that is needed to convert the D3 into usable matter. The same way as when a human takes Vitamin C tablets, they also take Iron tablets because Iron allows the body to decomposit the VitC so the body can make use of it.

Vitamin D3 is actually very toxic in large amounts. If it is not regulated, or converted well enough, its possible that it could lead to problems.
Info on how Vitamin d3 is converted

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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

I had not seen this before, but have been trying to understand all this better having many desert lizards that are in need of UVB to stay healthy and promote breeding as well.

I have recently purchased a uvb meter to track my lighting and always try and monitor my suppliments. Anyway this is GOOD READING, LOL
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

I knew about that link (it IS amazing, huh?) but there is a lot to wade thru - so I was taking the lazy route (my life is so crazy right now - 300 baby cecropia caterpillars and zillions of others. Ana just laid another clutch, too!)

Eve, what meter did you get? The solarmeter? which one? I think I need to fit that into my budget.

thanks,
lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan for now
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Very interesting, Will. C. Anderson provided a less technical but similar synopsis link on the RZ forum about 6 months ago. I purchased some T-Rex Solar Drops and was using them in addition to the UVB lighting and supplements in my male Chinese Water Dragon. Within a month, I had a male CWD who was exhibiting many of the symptoms of MBD. He couldn't climb, appeared very weak. I quickly reverted back to the care regimen I had been following for the previous 2 years (calcium, vitamins, MV bulbs in tandem with fluorescent UVB) and it took 3 months, but he gradually recovered. I'm sure that with VERY CAREFUL attention to detail and record keeping you could probably keep a diurnal reptile healthy on a structured regimen of vitamin and mineral supplements. My question is: WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO? With the excellent UVB bulbs now available why risk it? I also own a Solarmeter 2 and keep UVB output of my bulbs on a monthly basis. Diane
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dianedfisher@yahoo.com

My 3 CWD-Avanyu, Tripod and Drago
Valentino, Veiled Chameleon
Chyam, Nosy Be Panther Chameleon

my cham does get a little exposure to uvb, i do have a light but it is a poor setup that I meant to change, but so far my cham is doing very well *knock on wood*

and i may just be lucky, but i dont regulate the supplementation at all, just dust the crix at every feeding.

i have a lot of extra floodlights and supplemetns that i use for my other reptiles, and if the cham does good with the 5 dollar bulbs, why buy a 40-50 dollar one?

I would like to say that im just making conversation and am in no way an expert or even that experienced. I am just sharing my experience and definetly not trying to come off as a poo head

If the suppliments are not being converted in the body, it is very possible and probably very likely that your chameleon will be at very high risk to the disease called gout. I highly suggest you do a bit of research on Gout in chameleons and reptiles.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

Here's some information about gout and supplements...
http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/
"Excess vitamin D3 supplementation -- especially in combination with calcium -- may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema is a common clinical sign. Additionally, pseudo-gout has been noted in veiled chameleons fed a heavily-supplemented vitamin D3- and calcium-based diet in combination with restricted levels of vitamin A."

http://www.all-creatures.com/456012.html
"Excess vitamin D3 supplementation – especially in combination with calcium – may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema or pseudo gout is a common clinical sign of these problems. The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs."

This whole article is worth reading...
http://www.anapsid.org/diverskidney.html
"Acute hypercalcemia (from acute vitamin D3 overdose but not breeding females) can cause ischemic acute tubular necrosis through the development of nephrocalcinosis".

Vitamin D3 orally or by injection can build up in the system. Vitamin D3 that comes from exposure to the sunlight or UVB light is controlled by the boddy and should never build up in the body.

Vitamin A from a preformed source can build up in the system while vitamin A from a beta carotene source cannot.

Vitamin D3 is needed by the body in order to use the calcium. Small overdoses of calcium won't usually cause any problem...the system will get rid of it...but large overdoses can cause problems.

The problem with overdoses is that by the time you realize that there is a problem, its often hard or impossible to reverse the damage done.

Thanks for the links on this subject. Always good to have what you are saying backedup by solid research sources.
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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

I like to back everything up that I can so people don't just have to take my word!

thx, and yea i wasnt sure exactly what role d3 played, just that it was essential.

good stuff to know, good post, thx for the info