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Some ancient wild box turtles

dragoncjo Jun 21, 2006 06:17 PM

The following two box turtles are two of the oldest I've seen in the wild. The first was one I came across his lower shell was completely worn and faded. He had the most perfectly formed shell I have ever seen. The top was almost like a square helmet, really an amazing turtle. The second is box that a friend of mine found from another forum. As you can see the entire shell is worn. You can see faint yellow markings if you look closely. The guy found her about ready to lay eggs, so as old as she was she was still fertile. All found in south jersey.

Replies (10)

PHRatz Jun 21, 2006 07:38 PM

Great photos! Thanks for posting them.
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PHRatz

FrankR Jun 21, 2006 07:39 PM

I live in NJ and have noticed the extreme difference in the coloration of box turtles from this part of the state, I have seen alot of very high yellow turtles from this area, as compared to the high red/orange specimens from central and North Jersey, I live in central jersey and over my lifetime in Nj I have seen box turtles from all parts of the state, south jersey having the yellowist specimens I have ever seen
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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez
Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

kensopher Jun 21, 2006 08:23 PM

Wow! That female is like none I've ever seen. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of turtles in South Jersey alone. I wonder if she has some old fire damage? That's really amazing, she almost looks like a triunguis. Thanks for sharing the pics.

South Jersey has some very attractive box turtles. I grew up in the pine barrens, and I've found yellow, red, orange, and even PINK turtles! I actually went out hunting a few months ago when I visited my folks. I have an old apple orchard I herp in the middle of the pines that is a box turtle Mecca. I've found several males with pink coloration on their heads and limbs. Fortunately, I found nearly a dozen box turtles. Unfortunately, none had the pink. It figures, we never find what we want when we actually have a camera with us!

dragoncjo Jun 21, 2006 09:37 PM

Ken if you look at its back bone(i guess that is what that thing down the middle is) it is completely worn down. If you look at the male it is still showing. Now the guy who took this pic found it next to a cedar swamp. So... maybe it is stained from the water...but I doubt it has spent enough time in there for that to happen. As for northern boxies being orange and southern jersey being yellow I haven't found that to be totally true. I have seen every shade of orange, red, and yellow down here. If you look at one of my previous posts I found a two burnt orange females, one yellow orange, and one yellow female with red legs all in the same 300 yard area. Ken, when you went out did you find alot of raided nests. I counted close to 20 today, most appeared to be boxie nest unfortunately.

dragoncjo Jun 21, 2006 09:46 PM

Also this coming week is supposed to be very rainy, so it is my goal to photograph at least a dozen. Wish me luck. Here are some more pics from south jersey.


kensopher Jun 22, 2006 06:21 AM

Actually, I haven't ever found many raided nests in NJ. I find a ton in NC. There were far less raccoons where I herped in the pines. There were tons of fox and opposum, but not many raccoons. Now that I think of it, I used to see a fair amount of crow raiding water turtle nests. They'd sit and watch the turtle lay, then immediately swoop down to dig up and eat the eggs when the turtle finished. I see a fair amount of box turtles nesting at a park in NC. If I go on the right night, I'll see five or six laying. The next day, ALL will be raided! I can see tons of raccoon footprints all around the park. I've never seen a nest being laid that hasn't been raided either the next day or whenever I make it back to the park. The funny thing is, my dog still sniffs out a fair amount of hatchlings, and I see turtles of all sizes. I don't know where the nest are successful, but they obviously are.

I have to confess, I miss the NJ box turtles. They were much more attractive overall than most that I see now. They seem to get more colorful as I head eastward, but many where I live now are almost hypermelanistic. One interesting phenotype, I've never found a box turtle in Western NC that didn't have a black, or mostly black plastron. I honestly can't remember the frequency of this in NJ. When you go herping, could you check for me? I don't know how you feel about picking the turtles up. Obviously, you wouldn't pick up a nesting female, but some people think it's unethical to pick up any turtle that doesn't need to be moved from the road. Don't worry about it if you don't feel comfortable.

I will get a better picture of this guy if I'm ever home, but this is my lone male Eastern found in a gutter in the Bronx, NY.

dragoncjo Jun 22, 2006 09:00 AM

All the box turtles I find I photograph from the bottom, top and front. I do it mainly for ID purpose if I find them again. I never pick up snakes, lizards, frogs, salamanders. They are too fragile and I know how much picking up an animal can stress it. Turtles are a little more hardy, and it is only for a brief minute to get photos. I've never encountered one with an all black bottom. However, my male which my grandpop bought back in the day from a guy who got it from NC has a all black bottom. Ken, they may not be raided by raccoons I just assume this. It could be oppossum, fox, or yote. Box turtles that lay there eggs in community like nesting areas seemed to get hit hard. What I mean by this is I see raided nest in breaks in the forest where the sun really hits the ground hard. I also see alot on trails, my guess is the ones that are more secretive about there spots do better. But if I see forty raided nests that means there is forty females in a 1/2 mile area. At least it is the food cycle doing damage and not a poacher. This is the closest I've seen to all black, its a wild male just out of hibernation this year.

boxielover Jun 22, 2006 11:54 PM

Nice boxies, im going to visit IL state this summer for family and going to look for boxies, for pictures.

Here is my Old Girl, Shes not from the wild but she is about 30 years old possibly older, Shes is the oldest one i own, You can see her shell is worn down smooth, there are no bumps or any signs of growing just smooth.
Image

FrankR Jun 25, 2006 05:58 PM

...
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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez

Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

kensopher Jun 23, 2006 06:06 AM

YES! I completely agree. I find most of the nests on paths. They are the only breaks in the canopy of a very old growth forest. In the pines, there are many breaks in the canopy. I think that the raccoons literally just walk the paths at night sniffing for nests. I used to think that it was ok because it was natural, but I'm not so sure. The raccoon density is so ridiculously high in this area. It's sandwiched between a hospital and a college. I can't imagine that so many raccoons could be natural, and not the result of bountiful dumpsters scattered all over the area.

Your pictures have inspired me! I'm going to go out during one of the next rainstorms that we're expecting and photo some wild boxies.

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