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This years babies aren't as nice as last year, but I still have a second clutch incubating. The normal hypo is 66% poss. het for axanthics.........an average hypo.

Brandon Osborne

Nice red Hypo! I must say the other "normal" Hypo is possibly the most non colorful Hypo Ive ever seen LOL. I actually think they are all beautiful (in their own way) but what the hell line is that "normal" one from ?

Keith

Keith,

the normal hypo actually has a lot more orange on the sides than you can see. I came from 2x het for ghost breeding.....I think Doug Beard hypos. IMHO, I think this hypo flame is what Bob Fengya was trying to perfect. I hatched out a pair of hypos with the high red, a couple in between and a couple of average ones. I have another clutch of 12 from the same female, so I'm looking forward to those hatching.

Brandon

Hey Brandon

Ive talked to Bob Fengya many times (although not as of late) and he was trying to get the reddest "Normal" Brooksi i.e. non Hypo . The pics I have of his Flames are very red but are they Hypos ??? Its tough to say without seeing his animals first hand. One telling thing is that your "Flame" is obviously het for Hypomelanism so maybe thats the case. In fact I remember when I was waiting for Flames from him he told me he used a new male that had good color and none of the babies turned out how he thought a flame should look. Also he mentions that only some of them are "Flames" so to me that sounds like he had some Het. animals that produce nice red Hypo's now and then. That also lends me to believe there are no normal "Flames" as the original Flame animal could have been a Hypo. Of course the normals from this line are beautiful but none Ive seen indicate that they are Red/Orange like the pic I have of Bob's "Flames". If Bob came out of hiding Im sure he could eloborate .

Keith

I don't think flame (is it safe to call it hypererythrism?) is as simple as a recessive trait like we see in hypomelanism, otherwise I think it could be more prevalent by this point through all the hypo inbreeding. What may be happening (or maybe what Bob F. saw) was possibly a codominant trait where you would see the extreme example (flame), lesser examples (inbetweens) then the "normal" hypo or wild phenotype.
Do you (or did Bob) make note of a lack of ventral pattern or increased dorsal pattern aberrancies with increase in red/orange pigment? These are traits I observe with the increase in red/orange pigment in what are "flame-type hypos".
I am still interested why orange pigment is frequently lost in the adult king, even with selective breeding.
-Looking for a good discussion,
Dave B

Is it reduction of red/orange, or could it be less concentration over the surface area. I have an adult goini that was red as a hatchling. This snake is around 40" and is still a nice orange color. In my uneducated guess, as hatchlings the color is more concentrated........in a small surface area. As the snakes grow, the color is spread out over a larger surface area making the color seem less vibrant or pale. Just a theory I've thought of.

Brandon

I agree with that idea too.... I am watching it occur to a Love male and a Krysko male- the orange slowly gooooooes aaaaawaaaaayyyy.

Bob line bred his brooksi for orange color. When line breeding you are going to find certain recessive mutations. Look at all the "different" lines of Hypos out there. Each has its own history with more than half of the origin animals coming from the wild. My point is that Ive only seen one snake that Bob called a "Flame" Brooksi adn it looks like a Hypo. I will post the pic I just have to find it. I dont mean to slight Brandons female Brooksi but it looks nothing like what Bob calls a Flame . In fact Ive never ever seen a more orange supposed normal in my life than that pic. With as many Brooksi as Bobs kicked out hardly anybody has bright orange "Fengya Flames" isnt that a little bit curious ? My guess is thats because they may in fact be Het. Hypo's and what comes from het to het breedings .Working from Hets you are not going to produce many. With Brandon able to produce Hypos from what was thought a normal pure line bred animal kinda drifts towards the true orange Flames are in fact Hypos and the normals are just nice Brooksi. I cant say this is fact just theory.

Keith

Here is the pic Bob sent me a few years ago. This is what he said he was working towards. He describes this animal as a 36" female if I remember correctly. Here is my point as I re-read my last post and its all over the place LOL. What Bob called Flames were in fact Hypo's so there are no normal Flames just het for Flame Hypo's from that line. Yes they are fantastic looking Brooksi but not Flames as Bob originally described them. This again is my opinion and not gospel. Either way Bobs animals are great looking Brooksi which is a testament of how he selected some of the best looking animals for his breeding projects.

Keith

I agree Keith.
Nice snake though, what ever it is!

Bobby

Keith-
Did you see the flame in person? That is an awesome brooksi Bob has/had. One of the things I have noticed through the trials/errors of taking amateur pictures is that a bluish background really accentuates orange (remember the color wheel? I was never good with it,but...). The animals I photographed were not even close to Bob's in color but looked very orange against the blue back ground. So if you saw it, would you say the pic accurately depicts the snake?
I am not knocking the snake's colors or the photo at all, I have actually seen this color scheme used very well in several good ads...just gathering more info on the elusive orange/red brooks king!
dB

No Ive never seen Bob's animals personally. I agree blue makes red orange and yellow stand out more but it wont make brown look orange. The actual photo is even more orange and when I scanned it it faded. I think a normal Orange Brooksi is gonna take alot of work but I imagine it can be done. My normal male has a considerable amount of orange on it but nothing like that pic. The problem is culling babies you would have to raise whole clutches into adulthood to see who keeps what. Ive seen some beautiful deep amber babies turn a dull yellow at 2 years old and on the flipside some very black animals have turned into deep yellow adults. Im sure you have seen the same things yourself.

Keith

I still have that pic you sent me, and I am positive that it's a hypo. It looks to similar to some of the hypo flames I've produce the last two years. ALL of the normal flames have been black and orange.....even the best ones. I think the one that Dave got from me last year was one of the best I've seen. Just my opinion. Wish Bob was around to comment.

Brandon

oh yah that what im talkin about.Thats a beautiful flame and when is that second clutch due.I gotta get me one of those.