Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was reading below and saw a pic of your cages with the face missing but I could vaguely see your joints. i emailed you but didnt get a reply, gotta love kingsnake and aol mail delivery. I think I have the general idea of how you had them but do you have any close up pics of your dado cut joint areas.
I was thinking about using a similar design for my RTB's but in the 3/4 oak plywood as white cages wouldnt really go good with the room I just built for them. Seeing as how I'm going to use oak, I was thinking about lining the entire inside with the tile board and siliconing the edges instead of just staining inside and out as I would assume this would hold up better. Any reason why this wouldnt work? If it would do ok, What should I use to glue the tileboard to the wood that would be safe for the RTB's. thanks for any info... Jon
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0.1.0 Brown Pacman
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight Baby Sulcatta
1.0.0 Juv. leopard tort
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
0.1.0 monster normal columbian boa
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.1.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo pastel boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
0.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

>>do you have any close up pics of your dado cut joint areas.

No but if you want I can run out to the garage and cut a demo if needed. I used 3/4" melamine cut a 3/4" by 1/4" deep notch for all the dado's. The top and bottom are dadoed into the end pieces. The back is dadoed into them all subset about a 1/4"

>>Any reason why this wouldnt work?

Yes tileboard is essentialy hardboard melamine vs the traditional particle stuff.

A better solution would be to make the entire cage out of oak like you want. Stain and seal the entire cage and then laminate a thin piece of PVCX over the bottom and possiblly up the sides.

You could also use vinyl film or vinyl flooring over the sealed ply.

The tileboard you would find will eventally fail due to the humidity.

Contact cement will work fine for the flooring and the sintra or PVCX, vinyl film has its own adhesive built in.

For more info on polyurathane and other sealants, I recommend talking to Chris Harper. He knows his stuff, I consider him the top dawg when it comes to that department.

Good Luck
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.11 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

No that is okay, i think i got a pretty good mental picture. I was just assuming that it was harder than that originally for the sides. The back is a different story. What do you use for the back wall? 3/4 melamine as well? Do you dado out the groove to the frame to place the backing in the frame or dado the backing to place the backing outside the frame or does it matter? (if that run on made sense)Also, did you line your melamine cages, I thought from the pic that that was the original melamine inside and out. What would be most durable in the long run to line the cages with? I'm looking to make these right the first time and hopefully only time. thanks for all the help you give on this board. It has helped me out alot... Jon
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0.1.0 Brown Pacman
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight Baby Sulcatta
1.0.0 Juv. leopard tort
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
0.1.0 monster normal columbian boa
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.1.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo pastel boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
0.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

>>What do you use for the back wall? 3/4 melamine as well?

Ironically 1/8 tileboard, its hard to get it right but works great after that.

I simply cut a 1/4 deep slot around the inside towards the back that the tileboard fits in. Can be a pain to do an easier heavy route would be to rabbet a 3/4 piece to the back.

>Also, did you line your melamine cages, I thought from the pic that that was the original melamine inside and out.

It is I built all my cages years ago before I discovered vinyl film, before I meet Chris, he was the one who opened my eyes to this stuff.

>What would be most durable in the long run to line the cages with? I'm looking to make these right the first time and hopefully only time.

Difficult to say my new cages are built wth HC doors finished sealed and lined with vinyl film. PVCX or sintra if you can get your paws on it is probally the best to line the bottom of the cage but I think vinyl film is sufficiant everywhere else.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.11 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

What would be most durable in the long run to line the cages with? I'm looking to make these right the first time and hopefully only time.

You can make long-lasting cages a variety of ways. Before I go off on several tangents, why don't you first tell us exactly what look you'd want on the cage interior if you could have the perfect cage? Would you prefer a stained/clear-coated oak or would you prefer a solid color (and if so, which one?) or a pattern of some sort?

Also, how do you plan to heat the cage? Yes, that does make a difference.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I was thinking about using a similar design for my RTB's but in the 3/4 oak plywood as white cages wouldnt really go good with the room I just built for them. Seeing as how I'm going to use oak, I was thinking about lining the entire inside with the tile board and siliconing the edges instead of just staining inside and out as I would assume this would hold up better. Any reason why this wouldnt work?

It seems like a bit of a waste to me to build a cage from oak-laminated ply and then laminate a white material all over the inside. To me that is a lot more expensive and time consuming when compared to just building the cage from white melamine and putting on an oak face frame to the front. Sure, the sides will still be white but between an oak front and a snake inside the cage not much attention will be drawn to the sides anyways, depending upon the layout of your room. Even then you put on some oak veneer and molding to give a raised panel look to the sides.

So I think I agree with Jeremy, if I understand what's he's suggesting. Go ahead and use the oak plywood but then use a plastic material of some sort to protect the floor and possibly first few inches of the sides. The rest of the cage interior can then be stained and clear coated so you can show off that oak grain.

Here is a cage I built for a friend. I just used the cheap, radial-sawn red oak ply from Home Depot. I don't care for it but the grain does look pretty good with all of the plants, etc. If I were building this cage today I would have gone with a real wood face frame instead of the strips of ply plus cheap molding. The interior is sealed with a solvent free bartop epoxy.

Even the first few inches of the sides can just be clear coated as they don't take quite as much abuse as the floor. Dave, aka Rainbows-R-Us built some oak cages sealed with water based poly and he has not recoated them in over ten years, IIRC. If they hold up to a Rainbow Boa they should hold up to just about anything.

But I do feel some sort of plastic material should be on the floor, whether it be tile board, vinyl flooring, expanded PVC sign board, or graphic vinyl film.

A lot of this depends on what sort of heating device you plan to use and how important weight is to you.

I can go into different sealers a bit more if this idea appeals to you.

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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I am not quite sure of everything I want to do yet. I am still in preplanning and want to get all the specs down before the saw even see its first cut.
I just finished converting my covered back porch into my snake room. It is roughly 8X13 and I wanted to build two stacks roughly 4x2x? to go on either side of the door I centered on the 13' back wall so the white would be highly visible. This is more of a outdoor room and not a interior room by any means. I framed the walls and used insulation and am going to epoxy coat the floor. The two side 8' walls are pretty much just window, having 6'Lx5'T windows and I chose to forgo the drywall and use the same 4X8 sidng that I already had on the exterior of the house. I am going to install an outdoor ceiling fan and leave the windows open during the summer and close them during the winter and heat the room with a space heater. By the way I am in Texas.
I am debating on my heating options as well as all other accessories. The ambient air is taken care of by the above so I am not sure of what accesory heating to use for the wood cage config. any ideas would be helpful. Up until now, I have just done the sliding screen top glass aquariums ( I know, bad) from petsmart w/ the heat lamps or mats depending in our spare bedroom which my wife now wants back because it was hers originally until the snakes took it over... Jon
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0.1.0 Brown Pacman
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight Baby Sulcatta
1.0.0 Juv. leopard tort
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
0.1.0 monster normal columbian boa
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.1.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo pastel boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
0.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

Just let us know as you make decisions and we can help. I think building the cages with oak ply is a good idea, although I would pay more for higher quality than what you can get at Home Depot or other similar stores. Next you'll need to decide if you want a stained/clear-coat look on the interior or something else.

As for heating, I prefer overhead radiant sources. For Boas in particular, I'd recommend a Radiant Heat Panel (RHP).
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

Just wanted to side bar a bit on that comment about the radiant heat panels for boas... Is that a matter of preference or what?? I've always used UTH's with my cages, granted, I have yet to build a custom, ( work in progress ) just wanted to hear comments on that... Thanks in advance Chris...

Flexwatt or undertank heaters are really only suitable for supplying a small amount of supplemental heat. People use them to heat cages in cool rooms but I believe this is a very poor choice. If one needs to heat a largeish cage in a "room temperature" area then a RHP is a much better choice. I would choose the RHP even for a small amount of supplemental heat.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

RHP are perfered over UTH because they heat the air within the enclosure and give a true basking area or warmth vs the warm floor with a UTH.

I use flexawatt on the sides of my enclosure and belly heat in my rack setup's.

Another thing to consider is with UTH it is difficult to allow the entire animal the warm belly heat a large boa would need a huge area and vice versa.
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.11 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

OK, valid points, so with the RHP, would that heat a hide box well enough to provide warmth to the boa while in the hide or would you set up a UTH or flexwatt to suppliment?? You guys may have already answered this, I just wasn't following, heavily medicated on sudafed due to sinuses!!

Unless the hide box is made up of something that is poor at absorbing radiant energy it should be fine. Even thick 3/4" wood will absorb radiant energy quite well.

Sorry to hear about the sinus problems. I feel very lucky to not have such problems.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I am up in the air on the interior of the cage. I like the look of the stained oak very much which is why I want to have it as the exterior. I was kinda looking to do a solid lighter color for the interior to showcase the snake more. The lighter solid colors just seem to portray the snake better. Maybe its just me but the stained oak interior just tends to blend everything on the inside together a little too well, or maybe it's just pictures. I was just curious if the brighter non natural walls would stress out the snake more, I wouldnt think so because I have seen many commercial cages in white, but I guess thats not saying much for the preference of the snake.
Also, if you were to do a RHP where and how would you install one? I know this much, I want roughly a 4x2 cage with flourescent lighting and whatever heating would be appropriate. like I said the room air temp will be warm and humid as I'm in Texas so I wont need that much supplemental heat. Thats another reason why i didnt want to use the melamine was the moisture factor from the humid air. thanks for any help.... Jon Runde
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0.1.0 Brown Pacman
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight Baby Sulcatta
1.0.0 Juv. leopard tort
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
0.1.0 monster normal columbian boa
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.1.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo pastel boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
0.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

I have no idea of a lighter cage would stress a snake more. It seems like it would, but I have no data to back that up.
Regardless, many a boa has been kept and bred in white cages so I would not worry about it too much. Go with a color that you like.

A RHP can be mounted directly on the ceiling of a cage, no problem with burns or anything else.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

If I wanted to make the interior white, would I paint it white or just seal it with the vinyl film or pvc or whatever? what would hold up better? I was originally going with the tileboard because I had assumed it would hold up to mositure well as it is made for showers but I dont know what the hell im doing soooo....what would be best?

Also, I saw this stuff at home depot in the tileboard area that was textured kinda like sandpaper but a molded texture and it appeared to be an all plastic material. i have seen someone else use it for there cages on here before but I cant remember who so i cant ask how its holding up. do you think that would work?

Also, where is the best place to find rhp's? thanks again for all help... Jon
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0.1.0 Brown Pacman
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight Baby Sulcatta
1.0.0 Juv. leopard tort
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
0.1.0 monster normal columbian boa
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.1.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo pastel boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
0.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

Most of the $10 tileboard is actually not rated for use in showers. It's a bit misleading, IMO.

Expanded PVC would not be something I'd use in white as it stains too easily. A waterbased epoxy paint might be a good choice and I assume easy to recoat in the future if the cage needed a touch up.

White vinyl film would be easy to replace and be fairly durable. Kind of hard to buy in small quantity, however. It is also very glossy, more so than I prefer.

I would look into some high pressure laminate like Formica. I assume it comes in white.

The textured stuff you saw was fiberglass reinforced panel, also known as FRP. Very durable stuff. I don't care for the look but if you like it you won't be able to beat the durability.

I like the RHP's and customer service from Pro Products.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I use white for two reasons one its easy to see where it is actually dirty, and two I don't use interior cage lighting so the white reflexs room light to give a bit of light but not much.

I also don't use hides for this same reason. I did have a stressed out snake once so I covered half of the enclosure door in newspaper. It helped a lot.

Melamine fails in high moisture enviroments with condensation and standing water. High humidity in the room, should not be a factor because it is not convined within the cage and there is more allowable airflow to correct any high moisture content. If it a huge concern go fing a piece of melamine scrap and sit it in the room for a year and a half and see what happens. LOL

I digress I think no matter what the cage is made of the interior can be lined with vinyl film. I myself was generously given some almond colored vinyl film and in all my experiance I find this to be bright enough but not to dark. It is a calming color infact my reptile rooms are painted almond first before I was given the film.

Melamine is cheap easy to use and readily available and can be forgiving to the user. When coated I think it is the uiltimate low end caging material.

>>Also, I saw this stuff at home depot in the tileboard area that was textured kinda like sandpaper but a molded texture and it appeared to be an all plastic material.

That would be FRP or Fiberglass reinforced plastic or panel depending on who you ask. I myself am using it in some new lizard cages but in a boa cage I feel it would be rather difficult to keep clean. Very durable though.

>>Also, where is the best place to find rhp's?

Bob pound at Pro Products is probally the most educated man on the subject will personally help you pick the right panel for the job, defenetly where I would go and plan on going.

Good Luck
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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
2.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
0.0.11 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
0.0.1 Youth -coming soon-

thanks to both you, all help is greatly appreciated. I will keep you posted and i'm sure there will be other q's if you dont mind. again thanks.... Jon
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)