Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is the first of 7 possible het Clowns I bought in a package from Ralph in 2001 as an after thought that are all going this year.. We have 9 clown clutches left. Over 40 eggs From Clown to 50% possible het and 17 from Clown to deffinite het left after this clutch. HOW ABOUT THESE ODDS.. 6 eggs 6 Clowns. How about that.. That is 14 CLowns in 2 clutches people with just under 60 eggs left. They will all be hatched out before the end of July I want to send a shout out Ralph Davis at RDR. Rock on people

MKR....

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Verrrrrrrry niiiiiiiice guys!

Kyle
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

That's more clowns than a guy could shake a stick at. Excellent guys. Congrats

Quig

Great balls of fire. You must live a good life!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

MKR..
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Congrats on proven out the poss hets. Hopefully the prices on these will not be low balled like the rest of the ball pythons have been done.

>>Here is the first of 7 possible het Clowns I bought in a package from Ralph in 2001 as an after thought that are all going this year.. We have 9 clown clutches left. Over 40 eggs From Clown to 50% possible het and 17 from Clown to deffinite het left after this clutch. HOW ABOUT THESE ODDS.. 6 eggs 6 Clowns. How about that.. That is 14 CLowns in 2 clutches people with just under 60 eggs left. They will all be hatched out before the end of July I want to send a shout out Ralph Davis at RDR. Rock on people
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>>MKR....
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@cox.net

I couldnt agree more Thomas... Congrats Joe and Wes, Clowns Rock!!

Joe and Wes:

Congratulations on your second clutch of clowns. And thanks for the Caramel that I bought from you guys last year. She is beautiful at 1500 grams.

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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

Whoa!! Is that a pot fulla pretties or what?

Quig

That is what I am talking about. Steve that is smoking. Awesome animal and all mine look like that too..1500 grams in a year huh? You are theman Steve. Pretty voracious huh? Wait untill you get the Clown. You won't believe it..

MKR...
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That is an awesome caramel man and am proud that it came out of our facillity since all of them look like that as adults. That snake in that picture with all the other morphs. My favorites in there are the Clown and the Caramel. I got so excited when I saw that caramel man. I forgot everything..

Joe at MKR..
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Hi Brian,

That is a beautiful female Caramel. This is the male that I purchased in 05" from Joe and Wes. The top photo was taken about four months ago. He is not a year old till next month. The other photo was just after he hatched in 05". Joe and Wes really do produce some awesome animals. Your female has that same beautiful "quality". Congrats again on an amazing animal.

Sincerely, Kyle

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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

get to work on the pied caramel, and pied clown (as if youre not already) lol and lets hope for less white that the spider pied. Yous guys rule.

Thanks for the support and all of the business people..This is why we do what we do.. Can't please everybody. but every customer is completely satsified.. EVERY CUSTOMER!

MKR....
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I'm thinking you might have to change your name to "Circus Reptiles"
Haha.

Nice clutch. I can't wait until I can afford a clown.
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-Man fears the beast in the Wolf because he does not understand the beast within himself.

I want to invest this year, and a clown or a caramel are definitely on my list. So I have to ask, why post every clutch? You talk about how many codoms there are out there, yet you publicly advertise and make statements about how many of
each recessive morph you're producing. I could have sworn this was a game of supply and demand, and of rarity. How can you keep prices when someone knows you have 20 males for sale? Don't they just throw out low ball numbers because they know how many you have? Don't get me wrong, even with the numbers
you're producing the trait is still rare, but throwing out numbers like producing 60 lessers, 50 caramels, etc., how does that not damage the market for that morph? Seeing numbers like this makes me wonder if it’s worth it to invest. I am sure you think the world of them, but if you have 20 clown males
out, then there are so many people that I would have to compete with when I breed them. I know that this happens anyways, and I am sure there are others out there with the same success, but why would you like to be the BIG example a few years down the line why a clown would be a bad investment? I can see it
now, “Why would I want to invest in clowns? Remember how many clowns MKR produced? How many do you think they have produced since then?” I'm just curious. I'm still learning, and I hope you don't take this post in any sort of negative way. I know you guys want to prove your big breeder status, but I think this is the reason why most (next to all) don’t show every animal they
produce.

Please don’t try and lecture me on “there is plenty to go around,” or “we’re giving back to the BP community”. This business seems to revolve around the idea that what someone wants to buy is rare (basically that everyone knows that
they are much easier to sell by a small breeder such as myself if there are fewer out there). There are so many numbers of each trait going out each year, but I’m sure you know that if people knew an actual number of each morph sold, they would be much more fearful to buy. Ignorance is bliss, you know? Most
of the morphs out there cost BIG money, and I’m one of those people who are fearful that I might lose it by investing in a trait when there is someone who openly blasts how many they are going to produce every year of my favorite, expensive morph I just bought. Can you help me understand? I like to learn as
much as possible, and I just want some more confidence on why I should invest in these traits.

PS And how does posting every clutch of caramels prove anything? I'm not questioning your honesty, but what would you do if a kinked animal comes out after saying all of this? Couldn't you just as easily remove this caramel from the picture and replace it with a het? Or maybe say an egg died in incubation? I guess I just don't get it. I’m sure you guys are honest, and wouldn’t do this, but I guess I don’t see how you making this statement proves anything. Thanks for looking, and your response would be greatly appreciated.

"This business seems to revolve around the idea that what someone wants to buy is rare (basically that everyone knows that they are much easier to sell by a small breeder such as myself if there are fewer out there). There are so many numbers of each trait going out each year, but I’m sure you know that if people knew an actual number of each morph sold, they would be much more fearful to buy. Ignorance is bliss, you know?"

I would say that this business revolves around the dream that you too can make it big. One way to make it big is by producing a wealth of ball pythons. MKR is demonstrating that the morphs are healthy and prolific and modeling the kind of production buyers hope they can match.

I don't agree with them that prices can hold steady for any long period of time but with good production they don't even have to come close to holding steady to make a profit.

Fear comes with ignorance. MKR shows both what can be produced and what can be sold. Armed with this knowledge customers may be more apt to buy than with a mystery project with unknown characteristics and production potential.

"Most of the morphs out there cost BIG money, and I’m one of those people who are fearful that I might lose it by investing in a trait when there is someone who openly blasts how many they are going to produce every year of my favorite, expensive morph I just bought."

I'd worry more about the unknown traits where the buy-in price is set by a few people producing completely unknown numbers and the health and reproducibility of the morph is not a matter of public discussion. The production disclosure shows that not only can these be produced in numbers but that their current price is set in spite of this and not by a cartel destined to break at some point in the future. With a mystery project you can speculate that either the morph is reproductively sound and there might be a lot of production you have no means of reliably estimating or that there is something wrong with the morph that will eventually become public knowledge after you buy in.

Clowns and Caramels have been around along time. They are still very valuable. At least ten years of production of these animals has produced not a fraction of their demand. MKR keeps their females on most clutches for their own collection, That is about half of what they produce. Let me understand this logic? You would feel that your investment is waisted because of MKR’s successful clutches? This smacks of perhaps over reacting? Ok let’s say that showing how many clutches are produced might indicate that “it can be done” and that the demand is in tact for the morphs? Stating that a breeder’s successful production of a morph might not maintain the value of that morph is far more of a concern to possibly changing the value of the morph than "being honest about how many are hatched”. These simple recessive morphs have been around for many years and they are not easy to produce especially in large numbers. Breeders hiding the amount they produce is not honest and it is misleading to their clients. If you prefer ignorance and dishonest information from breeders then you will be happy to know that you can easily do business with those types of breeders because they are around. Another dynamic is "clean" animals. Some breeders are importers and they have collections of high end morphs that they breed that apparently are not quarantined from imported animals. I would be FAR MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. Shows filled with animals from lots of various collections along with various imported animals that have not been quarantined is a potential disaster to anyone’s collection if they are not careful. This dynamic is a real situation to consider.

Let’s say a breeder produces ten or twelve Caramels a year that they sell to clients? SO! That does not weaken or change the market enough to depreciate their value. Also what makes you so sure that each year each breeder will have successful breedings for each morph? Some years they just are off on production if they produce any at all. I love honesty and integrity. 10 to 20 male Caramels being produced from a breeder every year or two still takes time to raise up and breed to produce more of that simple recessive morph. You still need female hets or female morphs that are breedable. I would like to think that if you produced 10 or twenty males of a specific morph from a breeding season you would not lie about it but instead you would be first of all very proud of your accomplishment and secondly that you would offer your clients high quality clean animals that they can enjoy purchasing and adding to their collections. When you invest thousands of dollars for specific morphs your intent is to breed them. Like it or not but investing money like that for specific snakes is a “business purchase”. If you just want pets for the love of just the pets then a normal or high gold animal would be just fine for your purposes. The market is not being over saturated by MKR or other breeders. Simple recessives are just not that easy to make and even when they are available you still need adult female hets and morphs to breed them with to produce more. Bob Clark had to sell a lot of Albinos and Albino hets for many years to many breeders to lower the value of the Albino’s. Do you actually equate the Clowns and Caramels with that situation considering how many breeders do not have them in their collections?

Posting photos of the clutches on the forum is “what people do on the forum”. Would you prefer that MKR or any other breeder keep their actual production and their number of clients purchasing the animals a secret? They are still producing and selling the same amount either way

Kyle
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.